Cyborg semantics

[Sentient6]

Does it irk anyone else when the term cyborg is used incorrectly in fiction? More specifically, when "cyborg" is referring to something that seems to just be a robot. I can't think of many specific examples off the top of my head, but, for instance, wasn't Angelina Jolie's character in Cyborg 2 basically just a robot that looked human? I don't remember there being any mention of her having any organic components other than her outer flesh looking human (which may have been inorganic anyway). I have a similar problem with the terminators being called cyborgs, since all their organic parts are just an outer covering and they all seem to function independently without it.

Generally I feel like it doesn't really count as a cyborg unless there's something organic remaining in the brain. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to make sense. I wish I could think of more examples besides the two I mentioned, but I definitely have run into more in fiction (not always explicitly so, but sometimes heavily implied).

[jolshefsky]

Nothing I can do about it but complain ... a cyborg is organic, generally mostly human, but with a substantial part replaced by machine; a robot is fully mechanical/electrical with no organic parts; and an android/gynoid is a robot that looks like a human (ergo, no organic parts). How is this so hard to understand?

I'm on the other side of the desires, so I want an android. Often, though, "android" seems to mean "any being not born" and includes clones/slaves. Bums me out. I think fondly of Cyborg 2 which was actually androids – but that's my kink. I understand your frustration ... the movie has "cyborg" in its title, but there is not a single cyborg in it. Same for "Cyborg Conquest". Peculiarly "Nemesis" is more of a cyborg and android movie.

I apologize for bothering to post this ... nothing new here! Oh well.

[Sentient6]

On a similar note, I got really annoyed when there was a list of "Top 5 Robots in Video Games" (I think it was a Lisa Foiles video on the escapist) and a bunch of dipshits in the comments section were complaining about KOS-MOS from Xenosaga shouldn't be on the list because "she's an ANDROID, not a ROBOT!" Fuck. Squares and rectangles, people.

[dale coba]

"Cyborg" - the term was well-situated in popular culture when Martin Caiden's book was popular enough to get a show on ABC. Then they went with "bionic" instead, but there's room enough for both terms.

"Cyborg" has been mistreated many times since then. I think newbees want to use it to mark the ruthlessness or inhumanity of the creature's behavior. Especially shortened as Borg, it's a hard sound, deep and booming.

Sometimes, what matters is how much meat there is. Other times what matters more is along the axis of thinking/sentience vs. programmed unthinking machine.

- Dale Coba

[BA2]

As far as I can tell the terms robot and cyborg are defined only by writers' convention rather than by any deeper etymological reasons.

Whilst I agree with the usage above myself (robot = machine; android / gynoid = machine looking like a human; cyborg = enhanced human) confusion is bound to arise since the word robot was first used to mean a 'zombified' human worker ["R.U.R." by Karel ÄŒapek, 1920] and the word cyborg derives from 'cybernetic organism' which suggests what we mostly now agree to be a robot...!

Funnily enough 'android' is an older word than robot but has always been a bit ambiguous, meaning either mechanical or squishy construction. 'Automaton' is a great and clear word, though a bit archaic sounding, and clearly means mechanical.

Words are very random!

BA

[King Snarf]

I usually use "automaton" for old-timey steampunk robots.

[Hayley Anachronism]

Terminology has never really bothered me as long as it's internally consistent and I know what it's trying to describe. Honestly, look at the evolution of terminology for computers over the years. They started out as "electronic brains," evolved into PCs, to the point where now they're so ubiquitous we don't even refer to them as such. It's "my smartphone" or "my tablet," describing their shape or function rather than their nature. I imagine it'll be the same way with robots and androids/gynoids in the future. Who knows, maybe implants and/or mind uploading will be as ubiquitous and inconsequential as tattoos or body/facial piercing today (I have a prominent nose piercing. If I was born even ten years earlier, I'd never be able to find work, but now I have no difficulty).

What interests me more is how the terminology of cyborgs/androids/etc reflects the times and the zeitgeist of the particular point in history or geography where it was made. Heck, the word for "computer monitor" in Iceland is derived from the lens of the human eye.

[--NightBattery--]

ill just drop two things quickly.

If a cyborg is an organism enhaced by technology and has a control system... then people with peace makers, are, by definition: cyborgs.

and about the terminology, i think Hayley brings an interesting point, now chemical kits and other stuff in science are known more by the brand than by what it is (its kinda sad), juts like computers and other consumer electronics and cars are, so perhaps, in the distant not dystopic-energyless future robots might, as well, be known by their brand or manufacturer. and maybe, just maybe all the jargon we use today... even if correct in those times, will be, obsolete and fool.

Regards.

[dale coba]

If a cyborg is an organism enhanced by technology and has a control system... then people with pace makers, are, by definition: cyborgs.

Before the pace maker, there was the iron lung. Huge, noisy, with many patients stuck lying in one until their eventual death. It's like the least convenient human+tech=cyborg ever. (my candidate for the same in fiction: TOS Captain Pike and his monumentally stupid 23rd century wheelchair. Beep.)

- Dale Coba

[--NightBattery--]

im a star wars person so let's see..oh
we got visual.

what the....

[Spaz]

How about this?

[Hayley Anachronism]

She looked better with the chalky skin and giant thing coming out of her eye socket.

[King Snarf]

If a cyborg is an organism enhanced by technology and has a control system... then people with pace makers, are, by definition: cyborgs.

Before the pace maker, there was the iron lung. Huge, noisy, with many patients stuck lying in one until their eventual death. It's like the least convenient human+tech=cyborg ever. (my candidate for the same in fiction: TOS Captain Pike and his monumentally stupid 23rd century wheelchair. Beep.)

- Dale Coba

Stupid? Yes. But it gave us some great gags on Futurama.

[Sentient6]

Use the beeps!

[Spaz]

She looked better with the chalky skin and giant thing coming out of her eye socket.

This better?

[Hayley Anachronism]

She needs one or two more cables coming out of her and maybe some cyberlox but yes. Yes it is.