Sentient or not? Which do you prefer?

[A.N.N.]

Sure, but if she didn't want it, then I'd want to respect that. That's what the toys are for!

[Miss Pris]

Cecilauthor's point about programming really makes it malleable. You can get everything you want from same machine/being. And why stop there? What about the infinite variety offered by something that can physically reconfigure itself, too, not just be programmed differently for different desires or occasions. Obviously something like that is WAY further off then an AI with a silicone covered machine body, but something like a reconstructing, reconfiguring body - carbon or silicate based - almost like a life form, but an AI - this brings the question of "sentient or not?" to "sentient today?" It also brings up a whole host of potential ethical dilemmas... and machine revolution dilemmas...

[Cecilauthor]

There's a novel called vN by Madeline Ashby, that gets into exactly these sorts of robot revolutionary ideas from machines that really aren't machines, but have become a sort of pseudo-life form. It was... inventive, but the premise had a lot of flaws. It gets back to the assumption that somehow, a humanoid robot MUST be built with dangerous super-powers allowing it to wreak havoc if software controls are ever circumvented. You know, all robots must have the strength to bench-press a Buick, even though no robot in the story is ever given a task requiring that level of power, annnnd of course, it leads to slaughter and mayhem. I wish there was more robot drama that didn't rely on foolishly envisioned, human-killing super-powers.

[Yosuke]

If they don't, than I can treat them like a toaster. ... a really expensive and probably my fave toaster.

Two-slot just took on a completely different meaning.

Bwhahahahhaha ZING!

[theodoric]

I'm not so sure that it is a question of which do you want ... a self-aware bot, or one that isnt

I think it will be at what point do our bots become self-aware whether we realize it or not, or whether we want them to or not

to a degree this idea was covered in depth, and very nicely, in the manga "Chobits"

at what point do "expert systems" the pre-cursor to real A.I.'s cross the line into being an A.I. .... and at what point will an A.I. cross over to being self-aware

years ago a primitive A.I. (a fairly sophisticated chatbot program) was released onto the internet ... and some people were fooled enough that she actually got a few marriage offers

over the years I have seen way more than a few alcoholics and druggies who didnt display as much intelligence, or as much actual personality, as some of the already existing chatbot programs
... and I have seen people turned into near robots because of drugs like Zoloft, Welbutrin, Paxil, Prozac, etc, that were given to them in ever increasing doseages to keep them numb to the crappy life they have to live in ... so that they finally reach the point where their own " free will/self-awareness" doesnt exist any more ... they are so numbed to everythingl that they dutifully follow the commands of their shrink and the commands of those who were the cause of them needing the drugs to numb them in the first place
... I saw it very personally, I saw an ex-gf slowly turned into an obedient little zombie for her asshole husband and worthless son ... her original personality had been completely overridden by the drugs and the programming she got from her shrink

the meta-physics of this idea ... of self-awareness, free will, and how/when will it start applying to fembots has been getting batted around for years over in the adult doll community ... because some over there ... do not see their doll(s) as just a "sex toy" made out of silicone ... they have allowed her to become a person in her own right ... and the emotions invested in their doll, do seem to be returned by the doll ... and if you look deeply enough, you can see where to a few, their doll became a person in her own right, even without conscious effort by the owner ... the emotions developed on their own without the owner consciously intending for it to happen

after all ........ how many of us have invested huge amounts of emotion in a favorite car, boat, computer, fishing pole, rifle, etc ... until it seems to have a personality of its own


I'm not so sure it will be a question of self-awareness and free will ... as much as how willing are we to let something that some would see as just an "artificial construct" ... become a person in its own right ... and how willing we are to treat that person as a person ... including developing genuine emotional attachments to/with that person

[dale coba]

We will absolutely be able to make systems which will convincingly satisfy us as if they are self-aware intelligent, though they are most clearly, demonstrably designed expressly not to be self-aware intelligent.

If she factory resets much of her "self" every few minutes, if her data normally are over-written, there's not much room for emergence there. Maybe she learns nothing, but has very, very good algorithms that do not evolve.

To sell a truly intelligent bot would open a company up to such legal liability as would destroy them.
Alas, if only they had used Doc Coba's patent "Ai-No" A.I. substitute O.S., they'd still be in the 'bot business today!

- Dale Coba

[theodoric]

...

If she factory resets much of her "self" every few minutes, if her data normally are over-written, there's not much room for emergence there. Maybe she learns nothing, but has very, very good algorithms that do not evolve.

if she resets herself every few minutes ... she is not an AI ... that is a common characteristic of a virus/malware that gets released onto the internet all too often ... endlessly causing your comp to reset and/or erase data

To sell a truly intelligent bot would open a company up to such legal liability as would destroy them.

only in a make believe world created by phony intellectuals

there are already bots and AI programs that show a higher level of "intelligence" than many humans

Alas, if only they had used Doc Coba's patent "Ai-No" A.I. substitute O.S., they'd still be in the 'bot business today!
- Dale Coba

self aggrandizing posts may make an over-inflated ego feel better about itself ... but they accomplish nothing useful

post that also focus on being deliberately silly by over use of pseudo-intellectual phrasing accomplish very little except to show which people should be ignored by those who are here to take things seriously

[KingJeremy]

there are already bots and AI programs that show a higher level of "intelligence" than many humans

I don't think so...there are certainly AI's that are better at quickly limiting variables and solving semi-complex problems than many people, but that's only one small dimension of intelligence. I daresay there is not a single artificial entity worldwide that, when presented with a problem and NO prior inputs towards a solution, would do anything other than just sit there. A true intelligence (even a primitive one), when presented with a novel situation will either begin experimenting or attempt retreat in self preservation. I don't believe we're seeing that anywhere.

self aggrandizing posts may make an over-inflated ego feel better about itself ... but they accomplish nothing useful
post that also focus on being deliberately silly by over use of pseudo-intellectual phrasing accomplish very little except to show which people should be ignored by those who are here to take things seriously

But you see, there are a good many of us here that ARE here just for fun. I'm not sure which side of the fence Coba comes down on and it's really not important. For some of us this is just a fun fantasty and we really wouldn't want it to be anything more than that, for the ethical reasons that Dale hints at. If you've never heard the phrase "The wanting is more fun than the having" before...you just did Maybe you didn't intend for that last line to come off as a dismissive attack, but it sure looks that way from here. You're going to find a LOT of differing viewpoints on this board...a little levity goes a long ways.

*slow clap*

[Cecilauthor]

As to whether we CAN develop an A.I., researchers have been actively at work for decades attempting just that. Some people believe that the human brain has some indefinable, magical soul that grants us intelligence but - (as I explain in my novel, Orchid Island) since human intellect and personality can be affected by drugs, alcohol, and injury, then these factors MUST be the result of physical structure. A magical spirit from heaven shouldn't be able to suffer brain damage from crude trauma.

Therefore, it's logical to propose that any brain function that could be affected by physical forces is caused by physical structure. And any physical structure can be duplicated... maybe not easily. Maybe not at our current tech, but somehow, somewhere, it would be possible to duplicate a purely physical arrangement. So something very like A.I. should occur.

Dale Cobra questions whether it would be legal to sell them? The thing is, being machines - if there's a legal standard prohibiting A.I. at a certain level, then designers could circumvent the restrictions. How does the court define sentience? If Sentience is the ability to do a certain math problem, prohibit the robot from performing that type of math. If autonomy is the requirement for sentience, after which a robot cannot be sold, make robots that shut down if they leave a certain radius. If there's a market for A.I.'s, designers could specifically build around some legal restraint.

It's relatively easy to forbid human slavery. Recognition isn't a problem if you reject prejudicial notions that define humanity only as white people from England, Ireland, and Scotland. But with a machine? They can take any number of forms. It's much more complicated to forbid a level of consciousness; much harder to create a law that couldn't be evaded by redesign.

[darkbutflashy]

About the whole legal stuff: we don't even apply it to humans in far away countries, so I doubt that's a problem for any proud whatsoever. Historically you've needed serious firepower to gain rights, that's the only stuff that has counted. And that's what is still behind any facade of legality and political correctness.