Thoughts on super-strength

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Thu May 03, 2012 6:50 pm

The past three robot/fembot novels I've picked up (and many, many, more before that) All promulgate the idea that any robot in human form, even one designed strictly for sexual pleasure, must be equipped with the strength of a dozen Olympic weightlifters. Then, these stories all go on to demonstrate how the robot's owner is maimed, killed, or otherwise suffers disaster as a result of that super-strength. Never is the question raised: does a robot who's primary job

is giving blowjobs and making dinner need to be strong enough to bend crowbars and human spinal-columns into pretzels?

Where does this idea originate? Is it a reflection of an ideal of perfection that humanoid robots represent?

The Liar · Post by **The Liar** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:08 pm

It a default assumption.

It's been around since the beginning of the idea of a robot, large metal men with hydraulic powered arms, why wouldn't they have super strength?

Now it's just assumed robot = super strength

dale coba · Post by **dale coba** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:12 pm

Is there a bit of the "Genies are A$$holes" trope, which says you shouldn't idly wish for things, and has been a favorite of moralists across the centuries?

Or a bit of fear of the vagina dentata?

In those stories you read, the authors probably meant those significant losses to be the costs they allegorically, karmically "deserved" because...?

Now, you tell us, and cease my wild what-iffing.

- Dale Coba

Post by **Spaz** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:13 pm

The fact that they are made with metal is only part of the equation in my opinion.

My thoughts are that a being which doesn't necessarily need to feel pain or fatigue could potentially use a lot more force than the average human is willing to; unless that human is on PCP or LSD.

Frostillicus · Post by **Frostillicus** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:34 pm

Hmmm. As far as a purely sexbot goes, then I can see ENHANCED strength if someone is into sub/DOM or has an Amazon fetish. As far as practicality goes... I have mixed feelings. I would like a fembot I owned to have the potential for the strength of at least two firefighters and the endurance as well. The reason being is that if this will also act as a caregiver than it should be able to lift whom it is caring for should the need arise. There are obese people that would require more strength than that to be lifted (much less moved to a different location). I've had to help in these situations and believe me it's difficult. You would also want her to be able to help move furniture or open a stuck jar, change a tire on your semi-truck, etc. so you won't have to spend more money to hire people to do that.

What I think super-strength also implies is super endurance and super durability as well even though that may not be the case, it's almost subliminal since that body would have to endure the pressures as well. We don't want our expensive assistants breaking down or running out of power every few weeks because we are trying to get the most for our money. Grant it; they should have a default strength setting that shouldn't exceed a certain PSI like a torque wrench, but that setting should also be an option to adjust as needed since it makes for a better tool

Regardless, the current mechanical technology can't handle the comparative strength and forces that biological levers can especially if it's gears and pneumatics. There's also the issue of damage in non-ductile surfaces that can't "bounce back" or stretch. But even as far back as 18 years ago there was synthetic muscle fiber that was hundreds of times stronger than human muscle although the issue of controlling the contraction hasn't been overcome yet. Still, it will be the only realistic solution to having something that feels as good as it looks (even though in our case here, the mechanical innards look pretty attractive)

In the case of them becoming vengeful or mindless killers (not likely) or having some kind of a glitch (without safeguards or overrides), what ever happened to that off or pause button on the remote and/or a hardwired power button deep in the armpit or something?

King Snarf · Post by **King Snarf** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:14 pm

Another idea, related to the "no pain/ fatigue" thing is that there's a bit of they don't understand how fragile humans are or, lacking emotions, don't care. They haven't gained enough awareness to understand the concept of holding back.

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:50 pm

There are many features that might be useful, but not logical. It might be useful for me to have a rocket launcher on my car; in case a tree falls on a road I'm driving on. Or a smart phone with a poison-dart Ap, just in case. It just seems like any advantage in having a super-strong sexbot helper would be made irrelevant if she can tie your spine like a pair of shoelaces at the slightest malfunction. They don't even have to enter a 'kill all humans' evil robot mode; maybe just a pressure sensor malfunction.

So many sci-fi stories portray woman-sized robots twice as strong as a silverback gorilla on steroids, then go on to demonstrate the disasters that result from that choice. It's like they're invalidating their own premise. It seems like the legal liabilities would be too steep for any corporation to handle. Every time I see an Star Trek TNG episode where someone hacks Data's brain, or Lore murders somebody, I have to ask "Why Dr. Soong? Why?" It seems even crazier for a sexual pleasure fembot. Durable yes - able to bend steel prison bars one handed?

Convince me, somebody.

Rotwang · Post by **Rotwang** » Fri May 04, 2012 1:41 am

I think it's more of a trope than anything else, I doubt that many of the humanoid robot projects out there are much of a threat to the average human being, most will go down to the ground with one good kick. Knowing how other things are usually built it's unlikely manufacturers will bother to give any robot that doesn't need it extra strength, it would be like insisting on having a turbocharged V-12 in every Smart. And I think there are practical problems as well such as power ratios, battery life etc.

DukeNukem 2417 · Post by **DukeNukem 2417** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:06 am

Rotwang wrote:I think it's more of a trope than anything else, I doubt that many of the humanoid robot projects out there are much of a threat to the average human being, most will go down to the ground with one good kick. Knowing how other things are usually built it's unlikely manufacturers will bother to give any robot that doesn't need it extra strength, it would be like insisting on having a turbocharged V-12 in every Smart. And I think there are practical problems as well such as power ratios, battery life etc.

Indeed.

I read something on a Small Wonder fansite that talked about the feasibility of Vicki being able to pick up a sofa, and it mentioned that her RadioThermionic Generator output and myogel musculature system would put her at roughly the same strength level as two "muscular men". Size, power source and whatever muscle substitute are used are definitely factors in the "super strength" department.

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Fri May 04, 2012 8:51 am

A sexbot needn't be any stronger than the average for females it's/her size.
However, they could be stronger but with the normal strength as default. They could be designed to respond in an emergency to some word such as "shazam" with greater strength.

And, yes, assuming a robot is super strong dates from the early ideas of them as being made of metal like a suit of armor and being machines to do difficult tasks or to be soldiers and guards.

GZ02 · Post by **GZ02** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:50 pm

Why shouldn't a sex bot have super strength? If she's designed for a specific user then shouldn't she be programmed to also protect that user and prevent him/her coming to harm so as to ensure her relevance?

Kube² · Post by **Kube²** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:48 pm

I totally agree with cecilauthor, super strengh is mostly useless, and technically it is pretty silly.

If I would be the owner of a real fembot I would not wish it to have super strengh for the following reason :

--> the first one is that if the fembot goes crazy with super strengh it can became very dangeroud for it user. For safety issues the fembot shouldn't be strong, she might be weak enough so that anyone in interaction with the robot would have the physical control on it on any situation.

--> So the strengh of the robot should be as limited as possible (only enough strenth to walk take light object and perform passive sex intercourse). This also a goog way to optimize the price of the fembot, superstrengh would also have a cost, which might be very significant...

dale coba · Post by **dale coba** » Fri May 04, 2012 5:31 pm

If anyone hacks in, couldn't they kill you with any bot, unless it was made to be much weaker than a human?
...and was of a small mass/size?

No wi-fi allowed.

- Dale Coba

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:03 am

DukeNukem 2417 wrote: I read something on a Small Wonder fansite that talked about the feasibility of Vicki being able to pick up a sofa, and it mentioned that her RadioThermionic Generator output and myogel musculature system would put her at roughly the same strength level as two "muscular men". Size, power source and whatever muscle substitute are used are definitely factors in the "super strength" department.

But did they ever explain WHY on Small Wonder? Wasn't she supposed to pretend to be a normal little girl that had to hide her roboticness? Super-strength makes her less convincing. If they really wanted a sofa-moving bot, why not build a creepy uncle bot who's 6'2 and weighs a few hundred pounds? Or dispense with the humanoid exterior altogether and make a mechanical man? Why don't writers realize the danger and impracticality of Buick-juggling super-strength in an inappropriate body?

Making Vicki a child-bot would encourage kids to be around her; slightest malfunction.... little neighbor-child's vertebra becomes worthy of a Boy-Scout knot-tying merit badge.

DukeNukem 2417 · Post by **DukeNukem 2417** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:33 am

Cecilauthor wrote: But did they ever explain WHY on Small Wonder? Wasn't she supposed to pretend to be a normal little girl that had to hide her roboticness? Super-strength makes her less convincing. If they really wanted a sofa-moving bot, why not build a creepy uncle bot who's 6'2 and weighs a few hundred pounds? Or dispense with the humanoid exterior altogether and make a mechanical man? Why don't writers realize the danger and impracticality of Buick-juggling super-strength in an inappropriate body?

Making Vicki a child-bot would encourage kids to be around her; slightest malfunction.... little neighbor-child's vertebra becomes worthy of a Boy-Scout knot-tying merit badge.

Vicki on Small Wonder was supposed to be a "walking appliance"---basically, she was made to help out around the house and stuff. In those sorts of situations, giving her super strength makes absolute sense.

Of course, in The V.I.C.I. Diaries, it gets scaled up somewhat........

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:46 am

GZ02 wrote:Why shouldn't a sex bot have super strength? If she's designed for a specific user then shouldn't she be programmed to also protect that user and prevent him/her coming to harm so as to ensure her relevance?

And then what happens when the robot kills someone to protect her master? What if lethal weapons are not allowed in that State/Province? Who's to blame? What if there's some doubt about a lethal threat to her master?

And then, later - what if the robot has a pressure-sensor malfunction and rips her User's arm off purely by accident? What good is it then to be protected from a mugger? Any machine could potentially break down, including any safety constraint. If you were mass-producing millions of these robots, you'd have to grapple with the issue.

Other options for protecting her master/user:

WIFI video feed straight to a 911 switchboard - allowing the robot to immediately give live footage of a crime in progress, and say so. If police see when and where a mugging happened, as it's happening - catching perp is much easier.

Durability: A robot able to survive a single gunshot, or stab wound could interpose herself between her master and a purely physical threat; some kind of redundant backup power system could allow her to survive injuries human's can't - both her and master might then escape.

But defense might not even be a priority: Most people do not have an expectation of a hot babe on the arm of a man going on the attack to defend the man. (supposedly the other way around) A manufacturer doesn't have to include that standard.

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Sat May 05, 2012 7:07 am

DukeNukem 2417 wrote: Vicki on Small Wonder was supposed to be a "walking appliance"---basically, she was made to help out around the house and stuff. In those sorts of situations, giving her super strength makes absolute sense.

A household appliance has to be in the house. That means it's going to be around children and pets. That imposes real limits. You might be able to design a vacuum or carpet cleaner with a spigot that releases concentrated, industrial-strength hydro-chloric acid to get out those really tough stains...gum? wine? But it would be insane to put that in a house with babies and kittens. Lifting a chair makes sense. Lifting the family station wagon....not so much.

Keizo · Post by **Keizo** » Sat May 05, 2012 8:49 am

Cecilauthor wrote: And then what happens when the robot kills someone to protect her master? What if lethal weapons are not allowed in that State/Province? Who's to blame? What if there's some doubt about a lethal threat to her master?

This can be accomplished just as easily as the robot picking up a gun, a knife, crowbar, being a martial arts master, etc. Even as an accident, lawyers will find ANY reason to sue. Period.

And then, later - what if the robot has a pressure-sensor malfunction and rips her User's arm off purely by accident? What good is it then to be protected from a mugger? Any machine could potentially break down, including any safety constraint. If you were mass-producing millions of these robots, you'd have to grapple with the issue.

There really should be redundancy back-up systems in the event of a malfunction, if anything just to shut her down (although that didn't quite work out for BP in the Gulf of Mexico, it's still a very rare possibility. So is the possibility of being decapitated by an elevator but it happened and lawsuits were settled).

Other options for protecting her master/user:

WIFI video feed straight to a 911 switchboard - allowing the robot to immediately give live footage of a crime in progress, and say so. If police see when and where a mugging happened, as it's happening - catching perp is much easier.

The biggest problem with WIFI on a fembot is opening her up the possibility of being hacked and TURNED into a murder weapon. There is also the issue of viruses etc. Of course they will have WIFI, though, because we need our GPS and APPS, connection to databases for info and so many other things. As the technology advances so will the encryption and reliability with the advent of quantum computing.

Durability: A robot able to survive a single gunshot, or stab wound could interpose herself between her master and a purely physical threat; some kind of redundant backup power system could allow her to survive injuries human's can't - both her and master might then escape.

Our fembots really should be ridiculously durable, if not strong, in situations like this so they may at least be RESTRAINED since bullets shouldn't stop them nor should they be as fragile as we are. This in and of itself will not make it worth attacking her owner if she'll just keep coming and the perp will waste too much time just trying to hold her back if he can't shut her down.

But defense might not even be a priority: Most people do not have an expectation of a hot babe on the arm of a man going on the attack to defend the man. (supposedly the other way around) A manufacturer doesn't have to include that standard.

A manufacturer doesn't have to include that standard, but if synthetic muscles are as strong as previously stated then it may be easier to adjust them as needed so that the physique will be an actual reflection of strength like with humans, although they will still be a bit stronger. It is just practical to have them strong (not necessarily super strong) since they should be more than just arm candy as this will eliminate the need for many extra tools that most of us don't have a garage to put them in. Only the rich could afford a bot that will take up space just for sex (realdolls not withstanding). Most people don't have that expectation of a hot babe because hot babes very rarely entwine the arm of a man that can't defend her and himself - either physically or rich enough to have hired protection. That's where our fantasy fembots step in.

dale coba · Post by **dale coba** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:52 am

No Wi-Fi !

Give her an iPhone.

- Dale Coba

Asato · Post by **Asato** » Sat May 05, 2012 10:12 am

For once I agree with the majority... there's no need for a robot to be built with super strength unless it's actually necessary for what they were built to do. Like a robot built for heavy manual labor or combat.

But if you want to write a story where a robot kills a human, it doesn't need to have superhuman strength to do so - humans kill other humans all the time with their bare hands.

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Sat May 05, 2012 10:35 am

dale coba wrote:If anyone hacks in, couldn't they kill you with any bot, unless it was made to be much weaker than a human?
...and was of a small mass/size?

No wi-fi allowed.

- Dale Coba

They probably could but somebody who hacks into your sexbot most likely just wants to find out what you're like in the sack.

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Sat May 05, 2012 12:20 pm

This can be accomplished just as easily as the robot picking up a gun, a knife, crowbar, being a martial arts master, etc. Even as an accident, lawyers will find ANY reason to sue. Period.

It would absolutely be an issue if a robot was strong enough to effortlessly kill human beings without a weapon. Guns and knives could be taken away before entry into a secure location. Super strength can't be. It would be a legal shitstorm for the manufacturer, requiring reams of regulation and lawsuits. Someone/thing that could kill you with a flick of the wrist without a weapon would be a security nightmare, and would justifiably, create panic and suspicion. Better to just avoid the danger in the first place.

There really should be redundancy back-up systems in the event of a malfunction, if anything just to shut her down (although that didn't quite work out for BP in the Gulf of Mexico, it's still a very rare possibility. So is the possibility of being decapitated by an elevator but it happened and lawsuits were settled).

Elevators need to produce a certain amount of force in order to be useful; a companion sexbot doesn't. We have to accept a certain level of risk with industrial machinery in order to have industrial machinery; but vertebra-pretzeling sexbots are not a necessity. Why create more dangers when we don't have to? What if a berserk, super-strong robot doesn't want you near her off-switch and breaks both your arms? Why not just avoid the risk?

The biggest problem with WIFI on a fembot is opening her up the possibility of being hacked and TURNED into a murder weapon. There is also the issue of viruses etc. Of course they will have WIFI, though, because we need our GPS and APPS, connection to databases for info and so many other things. As the technology advances so will the encryption and reliability with the advent of quantum computing.

Hacking may always a be a possibility; and if you've foolishly bought a pleasure-bot that can arm-wrestle a polar bear and win, then your odds of survival just took a nosedive. A hacked robot of normal strength is no worse than the heroine in a country-western cheatin' heart song.

Our fembots really should be ridiculously durable, if not strong, in situations like this so they may at least be RESTRAINED since bullets shouldn't stop them nor should they be as fragile as we are. This in and of itself will not make it worth attacking her owner if she'll just keep coming and the perp will waste too much time just trying to hold her back if he can't shut her down.

Durability makes sense; a living organism can grow and repair itself, but a machine can't; so it will probably need to be tougher in order to last long enough to be worth the purchase price. But you could still limit the strength of their actuators. Then for defense, your fembot could take a bullet for you, while you both escape, but she can get by without forklift strength that might kill you in the bedroom.

Probably, defense upgrades will be add-ons for extra cost. Don't think I need a fembot able to change a muffler; they could sell a new robot for that. Mostly, she'll have sex and cook dinner without wifely drama. No need for laser-vision, the power to outrun a cheetah, sprout blades from her flesh, or any of the other outrageous lunacies I've seen - from some fairly well established authors.

DukeNukem 2417 · Post by **DukeNukem 2417** » Sat May 05, 2012 1:06 pm

Cecilauthor wrote:A household appliance has to be in the house. That means it's going to be around children and pets. That imposes real limits. You might be able to design a vacuum or carpet cleaner with a spigot that releases concentrated, industrial-strength hydro-chloric acid to get out those really tough stains...gum? wine? But it would be insane to put that in a house with babies and kittens. Lifting a chair makes sense. Lifting the family station wagon....not so much.

Blame the writers of the original series. The technical consultants wanted more credible stuff, but the damn writers wanted screwball comedy and the "situation" half of sitcom, which is why we had to put up with crap like Vicki shrinking to Barbie-doll size and stretching a la Mr. Fantastic across the room.

None of that will be in The V.I.C.I. Diaries---she gets enhanced speed and strength, augmented artificial senses and loads of other, CREDIBLE abilities, but no stretching or size-changing. (And before I forget to mention, Vicki is physically, mentally and virtually---or however you say it to mean programming-wise---a 22-year-old college student within The V.I.C.I. Diaries, so I'm not breaking our most important rule)

Cecilauthor · Post by **Cecilauthor** » Sat May 05, 2012 7:04 pm

DukeNukem 2417 wrote:---she gets enhanced speed and strength, augmented artificial senses and loads of other, CREDIBLE abilities, but no stretching or size-changing. (And before I forget to mention, Vicki is physically, mentally and virtually---or however you say it to mean programming-wise---a 22-year-old college student within The V.I.C.I. Diaries, so I'm not breaking our most important rule)

Does she need to be superhumanly strong and fast to be a 22 year old college student?

Keizo · Post by **Keizo** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:35 pm

I love this thread! Of course you are right, Cecilauthor. There really isn't a need or especially a damn good reason for fembots to be insanely strong except for custom fetishes or caregivers like Frost suggested since they can use the same tools that we can to accomplish things. Even then not so strong that they are a potential threat to human society. I'm sure the military would have a different take on that! While you suggest that laws would not allow such a "weapon" to pass through a security gate, it stands to reason that by this point in our history and evolution, enhanced humans may also be the norm that can readily compete with the artificial ones, be it cybernetics, genetic engineering, nano symbiosis, or whatever. I'm sure the laws will have a field day with those types of beings as well

I don't know what kinds of crazy stories you are reading (hopefully not mine!). But it's probably as Dale suggested and it is their being used as an unnecessary metaphor to say "technology BAD" and "morality police GOOD" however skewed that opinion may be. I'm here to say "fembots HOT!" If I happen to be one of those people that prefers her to be strong enough to have fun rock climbing with and carry our gear (and me out of there if I get hurt), then oh well.

You are a very good writer and I wish you luck in your endeavors. I applaud you on getting input and researching your topic

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