Religion is at it already

TheSpotConlon · Post by **TheSpotConlon** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:04 pm

Okay, not all of us are psychotic like this.

Christians for Sex with Robots! (CFSWR...we need a better acronym...)

Gorgo · Post by **Gorgo** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:10 pm

What would someone expect from something like this?

minkwheel · Post by **minkwheel** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:28 pm

WWDD? (WHAT WOULD DELOS DO?) --minkwheel

PsychoKirby · Post by **PsychoKirby** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:09 pm

*writes down another entry in my "Reasons I'm Glad I'm An Atheist" list*

Yes, I know not all theists are like that (By the way, I appreciate Conlon's effort at making a CFSWR movement. Good luck finding more.

) but it disturbs me just how many are.

And humanity won't go extinct because of widespread use of companion robots. To jump to the worst-case scenario and claim it'll cause an eventual apocalypse is just...incredibly silly. Sadly, there will always be plenty of people who don't believe in sex with a robot. Also, like David Levy said, the main market for companion robots would be those who can't find human companions. (Just in case someone takes that the wrong way, I'm not trying to be insulting with that remark. I'm just paraphrasing another person's thoughts, I know lots of you have girlfriends, and besides, why would I want to insult a group that includes me?

)

andoroido · Post by **andoroido** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:59 pm

DON'T DATE ROBOTS!!

-This messag was brought to you by The Space Pope

Rotwang · Post by **Rotwang** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:55 am

Don't expect any help from Christianity. By definition it holds almost anything that man creates as an abomination onto the big CEO upstairs.

Judaism doesn't have that beef cfr the original Golem legends and Asimov who presented artificial beings in a positive light. (Most Golem stories in the mainstream are just Christianized Frankenstein parodies)

Same with the Eastern philosophies who believe everything has its own soul, including robots and don't see a fundamental difference between humans and objects. Probably the reason why most of the creative research is done in Japan.

People still have a pretty messed up image of robots, cyborgs and androids. When a popular science magazine asked its readers to design a robot, 98% of designs were terminators, killers, fighting machines etc. Only a handful were actually benevolent like firefighters or rescue people.

Robot involved memes are so strong the majority of people don't even question them.

Borias · Post by **Borias** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:00 am

PsychoKirby · Post by **PsychoKirby** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:22 am

Rotwang wrote: People still have a pretty messed up image of robots, cyborgs and androids. When a popular science magazine asked its readers to design a robot, 98% of designs were terminators, killers, fighting machines etc. Only a handful were actually benevolent like firefighters or rescue people.

Robot involved memes are so strong the majority of people don't even question them.

I blame the media, personally. Most portrayals of robots in Western fiction has them as mindless killers. There are exceptions, of course, but they never receive as much attention as the rule. (Take 1,000 people at random and tell them what comes to mind when they hear "I, Robot" and more people will mention that damn Will Smith movie instead of Isaac Asimov's short story collection. And even less will mention the Eando Binder short story that made up the title in the first place.)

In fact, pretty much every time I read about some new advancement in robotics, whether military or domestic, I end up hearing some comparison to Terminator. Most of the time it's just from random YouTube commenters who don't make an impact, but sometimes it's from the news article itself. I have an intense dislike of the Terminator franchise because of its impact on the field of artificial intelligence, and I honestly believe it's slowed the field down somewhat.

Rotwang · Post by **Rotwang** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:27 am

PsychoKirby wrote:
Rotwang wrote: People still have a pretty messed up image of robots, cyborgs and androids. When a popular science magazine asked its readers to design a robot, 98% of designs were terminators, killers, fighting machines etc. Only a handful were actually benevolent like firefighters or rescue people.

Robot involved memes are so strong the majority of people don't even question them.
I blame the media, personally. Most portrayals of robots in Western fiction has them as mindless killers. There are exceptions, of course, but they never receive as much attention as the rule. (Take 1,000 people at random and tell them what comes to mind when they hear "I, Robot" and more people will mention that damn Will Smith movie instead of Isaac Asimov's short story collection. And even less will mention the Eando Binder short story that made up the title in the first place.)

In fact, pretty much every time I read about some new advancement in robotics, whether military or domestic, I end up hearing some comparison to Terminator. Most of the time it's just from random YouTube commenters who don't make an impact, but sometimes it's from the news article itself. I have an intense dislike of the Terminator franchise because of its impact on the field of artificial intelligence, and I honestly believe it's slowed the field down somewhat.

It's been around since Frankenstein. And while in the original story the creature had cause to be angry at his creator, subsequent adaptations made it even worse. Just look at covers of Amazing Stories or other classic pulp mags and 99 times out of a hundred you'll find a robot going berzerk, preferably holding onto a woman for some reason. I'll spare you Metropolis/Alraune etc and its fetishism for the destructive artificial Eve. Face it being a women sucked for most of history, and a robotic woman ...

Terminator is only one in a long, long chain of unopposed cliches. Political correctness does not apply to robots.

keraptis · Post by **keraptis** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:26 pm

Borias wrote:God made us the way we are, and I sincerely doubt that He cares about what we do so long as we do not harm each other.

The Ten Commandments reflect this- honoring God is important because it helps the person uphold their own God-given morality. Human beings generally worship by nature. If you don't, and you are able to lead a moral life anyway, this is good, but you know that without God many people will find terrible things to fill the void, as seen in the Soviet Union and Mao-era China. Human beings must never be viewed as a resource to be exploited or expended. Even the adultery commandment becomes clear when you realize the harm you are doing to your spouse.

You can recognize the laws that are man-made, because they are much more arbitrary. "Representatives" of God threaten hellfire if you commit a homosexual act, or if you eat the wrong kind of meat on the wrong day, or if you make eye contact with a woman who isn't related to you.

There's a disturbing tendency in ASFR about the objectification of human beings. Most of this is harmless fantasy that those involved would never take advantage of even if it was true, but think for a moment about the reality of taking the memories, the feelings, the will and the very life from a living, fearful, resisting human being. I do not believe God would approve of this. On the other hand, if anyone finally chooses to pursue such a path for themselves, I see no such issue.

If a robot ever has a mind sufficiently complex to allow for self-awareness, it will have a soul. Artificiality is irrelevant, and indeed, nonexistent. Every molecule, every atom, all is part of Creation. You will find a sore few Christians who would claim that a test-tube baby didn't have a soul. The line here is fuzzy, but it is also absolute, the moment a machine is capable of truly believing that it has a soul, it will.

If anything, what I have trouble with is whether a robot is capable of evil. This is the most uniquely human trait. Dogs can't commit evil, neither can monkeys. Such creatures are capable of good, they can feel true, unconditional love in a way that would please God Himself, but anything "evil" stems from misuse or illness or abuse or plain old human influence (such as trained attack dogs). I would suppose that if a robot reached a human's level of complexity and self-determination, they may reach our level of spite and sadism, but it is also possible that they will always work toward their own impression of morality because they are without Original Sin.

In fiction, I look to WALL-E. There were no true villains in this movie. AUTO, the antagonist, obviously worked to the best of it's ability at every turn to preserve and protect life; WALL-E and EVE worked to spread it. Both of these were morally righteous goals. None of the robotic characters had any of the sense of personal selfishness or destructiveness that is fundamentally human.

Very thoughtful post.

I don't have anything specific to say other than that I always appreciate when someone tries to talk about truly difficult topics in a thoughtful way.

PsychoKirby · Post by **PsychoKirby** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:46 am

I know Terminator hardly invented the concept of an evil robot (that honor, I believe, would go to the old story of the golem, though it may go back even earlier), but for some reason it's become the definitive image of robots in the average Western mind, which makes me sad.

Remember how I said even news articles make Terminator comparisons, for example? I found another one just today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... ntist.html

The technological singularity (assuming it actually happens. I'm skeptical.) is supposed to be a great event. It's meant to be a turning point for humanity, and Kurzweil's view on the whole thing is 100% optimistic. The picture they use for the article? A freaking Terminator.

Borias · Post by **Borias** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:34 am

Stephaniebot · Post by **Stephaniebot** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:58 pm

Technically the first evil robot was the first one on film, Maria, in Metropolis of course, created to stir up bad feelings about the human Maria. Trouble is it caused a revolt that almost brought down the whole city!

Post by **NatalieBayer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:28 pm

i am weary to post this if at all...but here goes...

God sees sex as something special, and something to be shared with only one person, your wife/husband. He wanted it to be between two of his creations as an act of love towards both each other and as an act of love towards God. An act of praise.

Now, i think that in God's eyes having sex with a robot is the same as fapping to pornography. He for sure doesnt like it, because you are removing something sacred that He made to be sacred. 1 Corinthians 6:18 says "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body." So in Gods eyes when we have sex with a robot its a sexual sin against ourselves, and since He loves us so much he really doesnt want us to do such a thing.

in all actuality if we as humans ever do succeed in creating robots that think/feel/act like a real human female and they become marketable i will not be getting one. Not just because my wife would never permit such as thing but also because I have my convictions towards God to honor His word.

That being said i also thing that what was posted on that site is a little extreme. These are the same people who said playing dungeons and dragons means you are a cultist who casts spells and hangs yourself when your character dies. I however still regularly play D&D.

The bottom line is this, we all sin, we all dont deserve Gods love or forgiveness but he gives it anyway. Why? because He really truly loves us. I doubt He will step in an stop us from making robots as companions, just the same as he didnt step in and stop Adam and Eve. This world is one big multiple choice test, this issue is just another question begging for an answer from all of us.

Svengli · Post by **Svengli** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:11 pm

Actually,

The thing I like about the article is the plausible argument that convincing androids are coming. Brings a smile to my face.

However, thinking about it, it actually doesn't seem plausible the prevalence of female anatomically correct androids would by itself cause men to become more callous towards women or vice-versa.

Several reasons:

* Human beings, surprisingly enough, know the difference between other people and other things. A man who chops would all is not more likely to become an ax murderer.

* An abusive person will swear at and hit another person because it causes pain to the other person. Knowing that an android will always take it and ultimately doesn't "really" feel pain would be an disincentive to abuse it. The fact that you paid for the thing and so you hitting it is damaging your own property would further disincentive. Some people yell and swear at their cars but, hey, they generally know that they swearing at their car - ie, that it's pointless.

* If a man and a woman each have an outlet other than the other person, then they're each is going to have provide something uniquely human to each other if they want a relationship at all. If (or once) a man has had an dutiful android serve him in every conceivable way, he may quite plausibly would seek something less perfect, less subservient in a real woman if he was going to seek a real woman at all (and similarly for a woman).

* If any man or woman could get the stereotypical "perfect" relationship with an android, they wouldn't have to be angry at "Women" or "Men" as the force that kept them from getting what they wanted. Once they got what they thought they wanted, they might decide they wanted something else but they would come away from the experience wiser and more relaxed.

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Oh, for the honest-to-Gawd Christians, you're right, this site is bad, this site is evil, this site will prevert you and destray your moraal fiber and you should stay as far away from it as possible. Don't let yourself get preverted by these androids, let us bad people be even more preverted instead. Don't those howls of pleasure fool you, this site is bad, bad baaad.

Religion is at it already

I like it