New Site is live!
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Any suggestions
Is there a site you were thinking of?
Thanks man,
Xeran
Thanks man,
Xeran
- fnord
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Re: Missing a few point
You still need to find some way of justifying what is effectively a 60% increase. "It was $10, now it's $16. What gives?" is a question that many people will have. In any case, the price still seems a little high. I've seen sites advertising at the $25-30 level, but they are the sort with near-continuous record of weekly updates going back ten years or more, and the resulting volume of content. You're also looking at a shrinking market (yeah, thanks for that, Lehman ...)Xeran wrote:The site is really only 16 bucks a month if you sign up for the 6 months, that's only 6 dollars more a month than the old site.
As always, people are fickle. As I'm sure you've seen, your customers can turn on you, and it's much harder to win people over a second time.
I'm confused. Surely you were getting $60/person for this. How were you being "ripped off at your own expense"?The old site had a lot of content, people would join then quit and join 6 months later. Basically ripping me off at my expense.
I'm not having a dig, but do be careful, and make sure you know what you're doing. I've seen people that have ploughed substantial lay-off payments into businesses that looked profitable on paper, but failed because they got the pricing and the market wrong. I've seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because their otherwise profitable business had all their cash tied up.
Remember - it's only going to be worth it if it puts cash in your pocket. Tread carefully, and good luck.
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Fnord
Fnord, are you serious, it's like your a 15 year old child? Did you find your moms credit card or something? Your insight is nothing more than that of a child so don't take any offense if I don't take your comments for anything more than a joke now. Clearly the way that you've been personally attacking me is that of someone who doesn't know how to control themselves or act like an adult. I hope you're not crying right now and if you are, I'm truly sorry. It's okay not to like something, get it over it, move on, I told you I'd refund your money. I don't know what else I can do for you?
Seriously I've treated you with respect and listened to some of your issues, but this is just sad and ridiculous. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child. The only conspiracy in your name(Fnord) is your attitude.
Thanks,
Xeran
Seriously I've treated you with respect and listened to some of your issues, but this is just sad and ridiculous. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child. The only conspiracy in your name(Fnord) is your attitude.
Thanks,
Xeran
Last edited by Xeran on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Might of not
foo, the people I was referring to basically did a check and dump. It's a known thing that a lot of pay sites fight. Basically a person will join for the lowest dollar amount then check out the stuff or download everything. Then cancel their preview account and then wait another 6 months and sign up again and repeat at the lowest priced subscription and cancel same day.
As far as the price, everything has gone up, price for image content, price for hosting and the price for subscription services and the development costs. It's like paying for gas, it's the same gas you and I had 6 years ago but it costs more.
I don't know if that helps but that's the explanation.
As far as the price, everything has gone up, price for image content, price for hosting and the price for subscription services and the development costs. It's like paying for gas, it's the same gas you and I had 6 years ago but it costs more.
I don't know if that helps but that's the explanation.
- fnord
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Fnord, are you serious, it's like your a 15 year old child? Did you find your moms credit card or something? Your insight is nothing more than that of a child so don't take any offense if I don't take your comments for anything more than a joke now. Clearly the way that you've been personally attacking me is that of someone who doesn't know how to control themselves or act like an adult. "And the free images you speak about will get you sued faster than you can blink an eye.----Beav'" Quote
"I hope you're not crying right now and if you are, I'm truly sorry. It's okay not to like something, get it over it, move on, I told you I'd refund your money. I don't know what else I can do for you?
"You can cancel your membership and I'll give you your money back. On to the nice nice stuff. Hey Beav' I'm also out of work I understand times are stuff. At first I thought about the refund, well how about a complementary month after this month is over? I figure this will give you some time to get your site up to snuff. Guess you could consider this constructive reinforcement show me what your really capable of I know you have it in you just bring it out. When and if you do improve I will not think twice about writing a review and maybe even eat my hat Come on Beav' show me what you really can produce! (or if not let me know how to cancel ) Never answered???????????????????????????????
Seriously I've treated you with respect and listened to some of your issues, but this is just sad and ridiculous. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child. "You certainly didn't hold back in your other responses so I can't imagine what you'd have to say now. " Beav' -Quote The only conspiracy in your name(Fnord) is your attitude. " Nothing is for free and when you think it is it bites you."--Quote Beav'
Beav' to use your own words "it's like your a 15 year old child? Clearly the way that you've been personally attacking me is that of someone who doesn't know how to control themselves or act like an adult. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child."" Talk about Freudian slips, is the stress taking that much off a toll? Hate to see you when It's time for an update, oh ya that's why the first site went down right?
"I hope you're not crying right now and if you are, I'm truly sorry. It's okay not to like something, get it over it, move on, I told you I'd refund your money. I don't know what else I can do for you?
"You can cancel your membership and I'll give you your money back. On to the nice nice stuff. Hey Beav' I'm also out of work I understand times are stuff. At first I thought about the refund, well how about a complementary month after this month is over? I figure this will give you some time to get your site up to snuff. Guess you could consider this constructive reinforcement show me what your really capable of I know you have it in you just bring it out. When and if you do improve I will not think twice about writing a review and maybe even eat my hat Come on Beav' show me what you really can produce! (or if not let me know how to cancel ) Never answered???????????????????????????????
Seriously I've treated you with respect and listened to some of your issues, but this is just sad and ridiculous. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child. "You certainly didn't hold back in your other responses so I can't imagine what you'd have to say now. " Beav' -Quote The only conspiracy in your name(Fnord) is your attitude. " Nothing is for free and when you think it is it bites you."--Quote Beav'
Beav' to use your own words "it's like your a 15 year old child? Clearly the way that you've been personally attacking me is that of someone who doesn't know how to control themselves or act like an adult. Grow up, be an adult and deal with things, instead of over and over and over again the ramblings of a child."" Talk about Freudian slips, is the stress taking that much off a toll? Hate to see you when It's time for an update, oh ya that's why the first site went down right?
"I have seen the fnords"
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Great, another classic example of two morons shouting at each other so loudly and insistently that they don't realise how stupid they're making themselves look.
The review of the site was truthful (if not a bit harsh), but when it gets to the point where you're posting badly done Weird Al animations in protest of Synthgirls, it so clearly shows your ignorance that denying your own immaturity becomes the worst kind of hypocrisy. As if killing your credibility wasn't enough, you continue to persue a "Nuh uh, YOU ARE!!!11one@#4316" mindset with your responses. If anyone here has truly proven themselves to be pathetic by thier actions, it's you.
On the flip side, you also can't say that you're open to suggestion and then explain away all the faults people are pointing out, and there are a lot of them. If times are as tough as you say they are, then why are you even trying to make this site work? If it's really about your artwork that you care so much about, then post it on Photobucket, which has the advantage of being free to run. Obviously that's not the point, it's about the money, and because it's about the money you can either change what you're doing to better suit the needs of your target consumers or sit around and wonder why you can't hold subscriptions down.
I'm suprised no one stepped in and called bullshit earlier.
The review of the site was truthful (if not a bit harsh), but when it gets to the point where you're posting badly done Weird Al animations in protest of Synthgirls, it so clearly shows your ignorance that denying your own immaturity becomes the worst kind of hypocrisy. As if killing your credibility wasn't enough, you continue to persue a "Nuh uh, YOU ARE!!!11one@#4316" mindset with your responses. If anyone here has truly proven themselves to be pathetic by thier actions, it's you.
On the flip side, you also can't say that you're open to suggestion and then explain away all the faults people are pointing out, and there are a lot of them. If times are as tough as you say they are, then why are you even trying to make this site work? If it's really about your artwork that you care so much about, then post it on Photobucket, which has the advantage of being free to run. Obviously that's not the point, it's about the money, and because it's about the money you can either change what you're doing to better suit the needs of your target consumers or sit around and wonder why you can't hold subscriptions down.
I'm suprised no one stepped in and called bullshit earlier.
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Nice thought
But the problem with the low-end membership costs is threefold
Number one - $3.99 memberships are cheap-key samplers. Lots of site provide the three-day memberships from 1.99 to 3.99. The problem is that a lot of these people are one-time members and are undependable for a consisent cash flow for any business.
Secondly, I would assume that Xeran is looking to more that the active member of the FBC. (Noidguy can attest to this.) The number of active members of the FBC are outnumbered by lurkers by at least 10:1 margin. This would mean he would have to pull new clients to make a profit.
Thirdly, people who like spoilers.
Spoilers are snippets that pretty much ruin movies or websites by giving the ending away for free. This will kill any early memberships a new site would get.
Now I do have a suggestion but I don't want to pass this through this forum. Contact me thought my PM on this site, and I will explain further. I think it can work and make you and another member of this site some serious cash.
Number one - $3.99 memberships are cheap-key samplers. Lots of site provide the three-day memberships from 1.99 to 3.99. The problem is that a lot of these people are one-time members and are undependable for a consisent cash flow for any business.
Secondly, I would assume that Xeran is looking to more that the active member of the FBC. (Noidguy can attest to this.) The number of active members of the FBC are outnumbered by lurkers by at least 10:1 margin. This would mean he would have to pull new clients to make a profit.
Thirdly, people who like spoilers.
Spoilers are snippets that pretty much ruin movies or websites by giving the ending away for free. This will kill any early memberships a new site would get.
Now I do have a suggestion but I don't want to pass this through this forum. Contact me thought my PM on this site, and I will explain further. I think it can work and make you and another member of this site some serious cash.
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Last time
Jak, I understand your point, but what I was speaking of was simply the pros/cons of the trial membership idea. Any the idea is to draw and maintain membership.
Oh, one more thing you can block the ability of users from DL'ing stuff off your site. That's not a very difficult operation.
Oh, one more thing you can block the ability of users from DL'ing stuff off your site. That's not a very difficult operation.
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I notice that some places work on a sliding time scale - so there's $x/month but subscribers must pay the first 3 months in advance, non-refundable.
However, I still think you're making the mistake of top-slicing a niche market. Mainstream sites have a large target market, so a small share is still big money. In a niche market, it's the exact opposite - a large share is often still small change. In niche markets where prices are generally higher, the volume of demand caps off much more quickly.
The argument that your costs are going up is moot, because your costs are almost entirely indirect. The only thing that scales in proportion to the number of customers is the commission on the credit card payments. With this exception, none of the other costs are variable with customers. If you serve twice as many customers, you don't pay double for your hosting, you don't have to pay your models and photographers twice as much (because they don't need to do twice the amount of work), and managing the small number of accounts takes up twice very little time. Hence, you could probably drop your price and get more customers. Drop to $15/month (standard price, not promotional or discounted) and you'll need twice the customers, but you'll probably take more than this if I've read the market right. I think it's abundantly clear from what people are saying that you're pricing yourself out of the market.
However, I still think you're making the mistake of top-slicing a niche market. Mainstream sites have a large target market, so a small share is still big money. In a niche market, it's the exact opposite - a large share is often still small change. In niche markets where prices are generally higher, the volume of demand caps off much more quickly.
The argument that your costs are going up is moot, because your costs are almost entirely indirect. The only thing that scales in proportion to the number of customers is the commission on the credit card payments. With this exception, none of the other costs are variable with customers. If you serve twice as many customers, you don't pay double for your hosting, you don't have to pay your models and photographers twice as much (because they don't need to do twice the amount of work), and managing the small number of accounts takes up twice very little time. Hence, you could probably drop your price and get more customers. Drop to $15/month (standard price, not promotional or discounted) and you'll need twice the customers, but you'll probably take more than this if I've read the market right. I think it's abundantly clear from what people are saying that you're pricing yourself out of the market.
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Re: Last time
No, you can't. If it's appearing on my screen, my browser must retrieve it somehow. If it's in memory, it can be copied to disk. Also, doing this is a surefire way of killing your retention rates.jknight_2000 wrote:Oh, one more thing you can block the ability of users from DL'ing stuff off your site.
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The facts are simple
There are thousands of manipped photos available for FREE.
And hundreds of those are very high quality.
Who would PAY to get a few dozen more, even if they are of the best quality? (Xeran does great work)
To charge membership fees, you have to provide something UNIQUE and not available for free.
Video sites can do this because nobody (as far as I know) is providing robo-video clips for free, and Hollywood and the mainstream porn industry aren't providing much 100% ASFR content.
To keep members you have to keep updating, no excuses.
When you start making excuses, your site is already dead. Too many people have been burned by monthly membership sites that stopped updating but kept collecting money each month while they made excuses related to their terrible trailer-park lives.
If you update very often, more people will probably stay as members, eager to see the latest stuff, not wanting to wait 6 months or a year to do another 1-month membership and capture everything.
Japanese heroine sites have been doing monthly membership for a year or 2 now. For 3000 yen a month (which works out to almsot exactly $30 now) you get access to hundreds of full-length DRM protected video and/or streams. (Very few have any ASFR content, though)
They usually add 2 or 3 videos a week, usually stuff originally put on sale on DVD a couple years earlier. This system seems to be working and catching on. Some people do 1-month memberships and watch as much as possible. Others keep up their memberships because of the steady updates, and because it's extremely tricky to save anything to disk.
If you're only updating a little bit each month, you shouldn't be angry if people don't want to stay members.
It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet
You don't go at 3:00PM.
Why?
Because the only stuff on the smorgasbord at 3PM is the luke warm stuff nobody wanted at lunchtime. There are no big food updates at 3PM.
You wait until 5PM when theres a lot more good stuff.
And the restaurant does not charge you extra for coming at 5PM, nor complain that you should have come at 1PM and 2PM and 3PM and 4PM too.
It's kind of too bad that photo manipping is kind of inefficient.
In 1 hour an amateur fetish video maker can make 4 shitty 10-minute clips for clips4sale sites and sell each for $10 per download. She should at least profit $100 if there are any fans at all.
In the same time Xeran can probably make just 1 good manip.
Though I'm interested in whatever the "other" content is going to be.
Maybe Xeran could make some zip files every few months and sell those. Put some unique ID info in each file (or even hidden in one or two of the photos in each set) so he can figure out who did it if anything leaked to the mass audience.
ASFRites have generally been pretty good about protecting independent producers.
There are thousands of manipped photos available for FREE.
And hundreds of those are very high quality.
Who would PAY to get a few dozen more, even if they are of the best quality? (Xeran does great work)
To charge membership fees, you have to provide something UNIQUE and not available for free.
Video sites can do this because nobody (as far as I know) is providing robo-video clips for free, and Hollywood and the mainstream porn industry aren't providing much 100% ASFR content.
To keep members you have to keep updating, no excuses.
When you start making excuses, your site is already dead. Too many people have been burned by monthly membership sites that stopped updating but kept collecting money each month while they made excuses related to their terrible trailer-park lives.
If you update very often, more people will probably stay as members, eager to see the latest stuff, not wanting to wait 6 months or a year to do another 1-month membership and capture everything.
Japanese heroine sites have been doing monthly membership for a year or 2 now. For 3000 yen a month (which works out to almsot exactly $30 now) you get access to hundreds of full-length DRM protected video and/or streams. (Very few have any ASFR content, though)
They usually add 2 or 3 videos a week, usually stuff originally put on sale on DVD a couple years earlier. This system seems to be working and catching on. Some people do 1-month memberships and watch as much as possible. Others keep up their memberships because of the steady updates, and because it's extremely tricky to save anything to disk.
If you're only updating a little bit each month, you shouldn't be angry if people don't want to stay members.
It's like an all-you-can-eat buffet
You don't go at 3:00PM.
Why?
Because the only stuff on the smorgasbord at 3PM is the luke warm stuff nobody wanted at lunchtime. There are no big food updates at 3PM.
You wait until 5PM when theres a lot more good stuff.
And the restaurant does not charge you extra for coming at 5PM, nor complain that you should have come at 1PM and 2PM and 3PM and 4PM too.
It's kind of too bad that photo manipping is kind of inefficient.
In 1 hour an amateur fetish video maker can make 4 shitty 10-minute clips for clips4sale sites and sell each for $10 per download. She should at least profit $100 if there are any fans at all.
In the same time Xeran can probably make just 1 good manip.
Though I'm interested in whatever the "other" content is going to be.
Maybe Xeran could make some zip files every few months and sell those. Put some unique ID info in each file (or even hidden in one or two of the photos in each set) so he can figure out who did it if anything leaked to the mass audience.
ASFRites have generally been pretty good about protecting independent producers.
- fnord
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How to save copy protected images/ videos/ flash on websites
How to save copy protected images/ videos/ flash on websites
http://www.techpavan.com/2008/07/28/sav ... -webpages/
http://www.techpavan.com/2008/07/28/sav ... -webpages/
"I have seen the fnords"
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- fnord
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WilloWisp, to answer your question, since I still have not received my refund as I was promised. I figure the entertainment of watching old Beav' have a break down is the only value I'll get for my $30.00 .
By the by his big update was 2 pictures and one voice file, big whoop, what a rip off! All that time not working and he can only make 2 crappy pics and a 30 second voice file. The Weird All vid was accurate, and had better Art than. It takes less time to go through his entire site than to watch the above vid.
In thinking it over my be I will change "NOW GETTING my $30 worth" to
I GOT RIPPED OFF BY XERAN @ SYNTHGIRLS.CRAP
By the by his big update was 2 pictures and one voice file, big whoop, what a rip off! All that time not working and he can only make 2 crappy pics and a 30 second voice file. The Weird All vid was accurate, and had better Art than. It takes less time to go through his entire site than to watch the above vid.
In thinking it over my be I will change "NOW GETTING my $30 worth" to
I GOT RIPPED OFF BY XERAN @ SYNTHGIRLS.CRAP
"I have seen the fnords"
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Actually fnord and Update
First there's an update posted to the site, new images.
Now Fnord:
Actually I refunded fnord the day he asked for a refund, in "FULL", it's been cleared by PayPal since last Tuesday so I'm not sure what "CRAP" as you would call it you are talking about. Also there have been updates ever week since it opened. I've actually asked you how else I can help you other than give you your money back. In truth I am tired of responding to your replies, but feel I have too. Fnord I've been around on this board probably before you were born given your attitude, so the only break down you see is the one you're having by feeling compelled to keep pushing your own buttons, by publishing image hijacking methods and updating your footer.
So I'm not sure how or where this all went wrong. Since you're actually out nothing and got a chance to check out the site for free since you've been refunded. I certainly don't think your footer is warranted and it's not really appreciated. But there's nothing I can really do about that.
An the update you speak about was 2 sets one of 2 images and the other was of multiple images. There's just no pleasing you... lol seriously. Please.
Hope you find your way, your actions certain haven't found it for you.
Xeran
Now Fnord:
Actually I refunded fnord the day he asked for a refund, in "FULL", it's been cleared by PayPal since last Tuesday so I'm not sure what "CRAP" as you would call it you are talking about. Also there have been updates ever week since it opened. I've actually asked you how else I can help you other than give you your money back. In truth I am tired of responding to your replies, but feel I have too. Fnord I've been around on this board probably before you were born given your attitude, so the only break down you see is the one you're having by feeling compelled to keep pushing your own buttons, by publishing image hijacking methods and updating your footer.
So I'm not sure how or where this all went wrong. Since you're actually out nothing and got a chance to check out the site for free since you've been refunded. I certainly don't think your footer is warranted and it's not really appreciated. But there's nothing I can really do about that.
An the update you speak about was 2 sets one of 2 images and the other was of multiple images. There's just no pleasing you... lol seriously. Please.
Hope you find your way, your actions certain haven't found it for you.
Xeran
- fnord
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Xeran Beav' IS A LYING SACK OF SHIT I HAVE NOT BEEN REFUNDED ANY THING! My posts are as a warning to others concerning Xeran's RIP OFF site! My last post was to answer WILLO's question.
For academic interest if Beav could have answered legitimate questions instead of throwing red herrings around, playing on emotions "out of work" and clear Freudian self projections on others, aka childish behavior, maybe a lot of the back and forth could have been avoided.
Looks like old' Beav's buttons were pushed again considering the incoherent ramblings. LMAOROTF
For academic interest if Beav could have answered legitimate questions instead of throwing red herrings around, playing on emotions "out of work" and clear Freudian self projections on others, aka childish behavior, maybe a lot of the back and forth could have been avoided.
Looks like old' Beav's buttons were pushed again considering the incoherent ramblings. LMAOROTF
"I have seen the fnords"
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Ok Ok
You don't like Xeran site, I think that's abundantly clear, and since you don't errors in oration, I make this clear.
If you don't like something make one clear statement and stop. Don't bash the issue into the dirt. Secondly, I can't make this any clearer than this. A review tells what something is about without giving away the plot, what you did to Xeran was the equivalent of a hatchet job. Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would love you for that job.
I honestly thought this site was about bringing people who have a particular fetish in common and building new bridges in the genre. But, in your case you have turned this into a personal vendetta.
If you don't believe that Xeran gave a timely refund, complain to him directly and don't use this site to spew your venom over a NEW site that is only one month old. (And if that doesn't work, this is always small claim court, but I doubt you will want to describe what your point of contention is to a judge.)
Last time,
JKnight
If you don't like something make one clear statement and stop. Don't bash the issue into the dirt. Secondly, I can't make this any clearer than this. A review tells what something is about without giving away the plot, what you did to Xeran was the equivalent of a hatchet job. Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would love you for that job.
I honestly thought this site was about bringing people who have a particular fetish in common and building new bridges in the genre. But, in your case you have turned this into a personal vendetta.
If you don't believe that Xeran gave a timely refund, complain to him directly and don't use this site to spew your venom over a NEW site that is only one month old. (And if that doesn't work, this is always small claim court, but I doubt you will want to describe what your point of contention is to a judge.)
Last time,
JKnight
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Correction
I gave someone their money back, who I thought was FNord because the membership date and hour was so close to the posting of the review I assumed it was him. My bad. So someone got a free membership for a month, their good . I've since then corrected the error in my part and refunded the right email that FNord sent.
Hope that settles that. Sorry for all the drama everyone. Just wanted to clear the air on the refund as I'm sure that was frustrating for FNord.
Talk to you all soon,
Xeran
Hope that settles that. Sorry for all the drama everyone. Just wanted to clear the air on the refund as I'm sure that was frustrating for FNord.
Talk to you all soon,
Xeran
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