The technology of Robots ... or what makes them tick?

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:44 am

I was reading "Evidence" by Isaac Asimov last night, and I found this description of an "organic robot":

"... by using human ova and hormone control, one can grow human flesh and skin over a skeleton of porous silicone plastics that would defy external examination. The eyes, the hair, the skin would be really human, not humanoid. And if you put a positronic brain, and such other gadgets as you might desire inside, you have a humanoid robot."
... and if you had all those elements, it would take about two months to "grow" such a robot ...

I suppose this is ONE way of making a robot, or in this case an organic humanoid robot.

But I was wondering if YOU GUYS have come upon other descriptions of creating robots...? What are they made of? What is the technology?
This could be from published fiction - or your own ideas!

Apart from the above, I'm pretty much only familiar with the positronic brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronic_brain)

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:42 am

Also found this description of the replicants from Blade Runner ... some interesting technologies here, I think!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicants

Has anyone ever used the Nexus-robots in anything other than Blade Runner?
And what about the Tyrell Corporation?

And more on the Replicants:

The 1981 script also provided the following definitions (that did appear in the Workprint and are used in the Blade Runner Comic):

android (an'droid) adj. Possessing human features - n.
A synthetic man created from biological materials.
Also called humanoid. (Late Greek androeides,
manlike: ANDR(O) - OID.)

THE AMERICAN HERITAGE
DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH
LANGUAGE (1976)

android (an'droid) n, Gk. humanoid automaton. more at
robot./ 1. early version utilized for work too
boring, dangerous or unpleasant for humans.
2. second generation bio-engineered. Electronic
relay units and positronic brains. Used in space
to explore inhospitable environments. 3. third
generation synthogenetic. REPLICANT, constructed
of skin/flesh culture. Selected enogenic transfer
conversion. Capable of self perpetuating thought.
paraphysical abilities. Developed for emigration
program.

WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY
New International (2012)

jolshefsky · Post by **jolshefsky** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:49 am

udgang99 wrote:But I was wondering if YOU GUYS have come upon other descriptions of creating robots...? What are they made of? What is the technology?

In fantasy, I typically stop at the boundaries of present technology for an electromechanical android.

Mechanically, and starting from the inside, I see androids as a lightweight skeleton with mechanical actuators to move the limbs (possibly motors, linear actuators, or some kind of artificial, electronic muscle.) There is a modest amount of control electronics for all this but primarily the insides of an android's chest are filled with batteries. Foam and silicone padding is included outside all that to give some kind of shape and then an exterior of molded plastic -- foam latex or silicone, like a RealDoll.

Intelligence-wise, I consider some kind of high-speed computer that emulates the nerves in a human-like brain. There are also traditional computational logic parts to add special abilities and re-programmability. The emotional system is also emulated and probably regulated in part by a traditional computer.

As I said, I go as far as present technology goes. This ignores the ability to see objects (partially covered with the human-like brain emulation) and the ability to have self-will and desires. It also ignores the nuanced facial expressions and body-language that has not been codified. Not to mention, there is difficulty in keeping a plastic body clean and free from damage -- something as simple as a scratch from the corner of a countertop would eventually become a large gash in a plastic android whereas humans don't even notice such an event as it heals itself.

Thus, it all stays in fantasy. I tend to prefer stories, photomanipulations, and video effects to actual androids. In fact, I think that in _reality_ I would actually dislike an android very much, but the closer I can get my _fantasy_ to fit with reality then that makes me very happy.

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:22 pm

A partly biological fembot would certainly resemble a real female in having natural smells and textures, but that would raise other matters.

For one thing, it would have to involve an actual person's DNA or some manipulated version of same -- possibly a famous model or actress. Does she get royalties each time one is made? The more famous she is the more expensive the bot?
Imagine someone scavanging Marylin Monroe's DNA to use -- the legal implications are staggering since the owner might be the recipient of stolen property.

And if something goes wrong there would be the question of using the bot for spare parts...how alive is alive?

The possibilites are wonderful and the legal ramifications staggering.....

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:29 pm

Great posts, Jason and xodar.

Just for fun, I found some specifications on Data from Star Trek :

Data was composed of 24.6 kilograms of tripolymer composites, 11.8 kilograms of molybdenum-cobalt alloys and 1.3 kilograms of bioplast sheeting. (TNG: "The Most Toys") Data's upper spinal support was a polyalloy designed for extreme stress. His skull was composed of cortenide and duranium. (TNG: "The Chase") Data was built with an ultimate storage capacity of eight hundred quadrillion bits (approximately 100 petabytes) and a total linear computational speed rated at sixty trillion operations per second. (TNG: "The Measure of a Man")

droidlvr · Post by **droidlvr** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:13 pm

Great posts, Jason and xodar.

Wow,If only I can get that kind of reacceptance after ruffling a coupla feathers.

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:32 am

Huh ?

Lord of the Geeks · Post by **Lord of the Geeks** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:00 am

OOOOOO the possiblities are boundless.

The description above sounds a whole lot like a terminator style cyborg. or what i would call a stage 4.. I have a little continum in my mind.. mostly because i tend to think graphically. it ranges from purely biological to a pure construct. a 1 and a 5 respectively. here maybe this would be easier to visualize.

1. biological-grown-bred-engineered

2. biological with some mechanical implants/augments (began life as a stage 1.)

3. equal parts machine/biological (began life as either a construct or biological)

4. construct possessing organic components (began life as an assembly, orgainics are individually grown for contstruct)

5. pure construct, built by assembly of artifical parts.

as for design of pure constructs.. i see it evolving over time as processes and technologies advance. It will begin with your standard servos, motors, hydrolics, and silicon chips. these will become smaller, more powerful, more effecient.. will probably give way to nanotechs.. carbon nanotubes, diamond chip/Quantum computers. artifical muscles... they will be more indistinguishable from a biologic, simply in that their fuctions will be more similar.

they will reach a point where they can also self replicate, and could be classified as their own seperate species.

for transformations... it will follow a similar curve as we learn how to intigrate tech with the meat. large and clunky will give way to more effecient and useful.

design, function, and components will also vary dependent on its intended use. an industral forklift bot wont be made the same way as a chef, or a starship, or a lover. each bot will be perfectly tailored to perform the duties we require of it.

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:03 am

Ah yes, the "transformation" ... I never really understod how that would work? How would someone go from being human to robot/cyborg? Anyone care to explain? I'd really like to know...

Stephaniebot · Post by **Stephaniebot** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:51 pm

udgang99 wrote:Ah yes, the "transformation" ... I never really understod how that would work? How would someone go from being human to robot/cyborg? Anyone care to explain? I'd really like to know...

This is a tricky one given we dont really know how the technology will develop, but sad to say (for my fantasy at least) I think its unlikely to be the 'pop a girl in a tube' or 'restrain to table' and send a thousand or more volts through her and her body will change into that of a robot. Having said that nanotechnology once developed may bring about dramatic changes to the human form, but who knows?

I think the more likely route for human to robot/android transformation is going to be more along the lines of that suggested by the 'Dyson Institute' stories and pictures here, that be it either through memory replication or transfer that the human identity will be transferred into a new android body.

But thats just my thoughts on what would be a fascinating process, and one I'd love to undergo if it happens in my lifetime.

Lord of the Geeks · Post by **Lord of the Geeks** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:06 pm

i've posted this before on a different thred.. but its how i see it happening..

it will be a step by step transformation process.. not just a download most likly.... it starts with the brain being augmented by a computer. The brian first learns to use the computer to control external devices.. as it is remarkably adaptable...then external processing... the brain starts using the computer for memory storage, and processing capibility more and more as it adapts to the computers abilities, and you use the computers abilities...your brain has programmed the computer to function and operate in the same neral network as the brain has utilizing the com as its own tissue, at a point it uses the computer just as much as it does its own nural tissue. (brain cant tell the difference.. its all electrical impulses) as the tissue begins to age and break down, neural functions are tranffered to the non-effected tissue (com)... as the brian conpensates for its own failings.. finally you are left with a neural network computer, programed with your own neural pathways memories associations... not copies.. original thoughts and data..... then you are machine.

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:57 am

Ahh, facinating. Am I reading you correct, when I understand this as you start out by being a "cyborg", where your brain has been transplanted into a mechanical device (body), and as time goes by, and the organic brain starts to disintergrate, it slowly becomes more and more machine, untill all organic traces are gone, and you are left with a 100% robot?!

I never thought of it like that before.

Lord of the Geeks · Post by **Lord of the Geeks** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:05 am

the body can be slowly replaced just as the brain is. you start going deaf.. cybernetic ears replace.. blind... new eyes... muscles degrade, artifical ones replace them.... a lot of it for our generation will depend on when we figure out how to make a biocompatible machine. like now.. i think artifical retinas are entering a final testing phase.. i'll have to look up the article. later full bodies might be able to be created at once... and transplant the brain into them from a dying body... but by then i see nural enhancements being the norm, not even considered cyborg. (some would classify someone wearing a wristwatch, or having a coclier implant as a cyborg now.. but they're common enough that most dont) direct highspeed wi-fi directly received by your brain..enhancements to memory, and cognition.. hell slap a cellphone in there for kicks.

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:28 am

Ah, a transhumanist.

We'll get there eventually, I don't doubt. I think the process will tke longer to become widespread because the previous generations will initially be against such widespread modification and replacement, but sooner or later it will become acceptable.

Lord of the Geeks · Post by **Lord of the Geeks** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:44 am

depends on the generation i suppose.. I know we have a broad spectem of ages.. i come from those who have always had computers.. an intwined and intirgal part of our lives... its logical for them to be part of our bodies too. An Ipod, or cellphone you never forget.. because its in inside your skull.... not that youd have forgotten then anyway.. your palm pilot is in there too. we believe in our tech.. that it will save us, and always improve us. besides.. in the end, those of us who upgrade will out live those that dont.

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:10 am

True, but I'd be willing to bet that if you polled the current "tech" generation, or even the upcoming one, you'd be hard pressed to get a majority that would be willing to give up natural body parts to technology.

I'm sure you'd find a rather vocal and supportive minority that would be early adopters, but this is one of the chief reasons that transhumanism becomes more and more delayed.

Even with the technology available and in place, social mores impede progress. Look at all of the obstacles in the way of something as (relatively) simple as stem-cell research. We're close to the Holy Grail of neuro-cures, and yet there are "ethics" concerns.

(And no, I don't chide anyone for their stance on this issue, just using it to make a point)

Above the social cost, we have the monetary cost of such a movement. Back ally surgery isn't going to make this movement happen. It's going to have to come from "Big Medicine" and there's going to have to be a profit in there somewhere.

Yes, I still believe in transhumanisim, just a I believe in the coming singularity, but in both cases, I doubt it's anything seen in my lifetime or the next few.

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:11 am

I'd like to ask a little about the "software" side of a robot - and I'm now talking about the 100% build robots, with no organic material.
How do you see that as working? -We talk alot about the concept of AI's ... but how intelligent does a robot have to be, to be concidered an AI? Selfaware? - and what exactly does that mean? (I think therfor I am-kinda stuff?)
If a robot becomes selfaware (would that be the same a sentient?), does that mean that it's "life" would have to be regarded the same as a human? Will it feel?
Or would a robot "feel" only what it has been programed to feel?

Like Data from Star Trek. He has no "real" emotions ... but I do belive he was refered to as an AI (but I'm not a Trekkie, so I couldn't really be sure)...
Or what about the droids from Star Wars ... they were only programed, but had "personality software", which gave them the characters they were.

... but back to my question ... What would be most likely to happen? I suppose if we look beyound the boundries of time and technology, everything is possible. But lets try to speculate in the confinements of reality - with a leap of perhaps 10 years. Then 25 years. - then 50 and 100 ...

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:15 am

A good question.

I firmly believe that the first such "self aware" AIs will be the result of extremely powerful networks rather than individual machines. The first such self aware robots could be avatars of such intelligences. (Think of the Romy android from the recent Andromeda series. The AI is housed in the ship, but she had an android form to interact with the crew)

Of course, flinging this out to the far future, I can see this as being a standard feature of such a powerful ad far reaching AI. If sch a system or intelligence were to be employed in serving a social function, it makes sense that the AI would need or require physical agents to assist it in it's tasks.

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:16 am

Like EveR-2 ... where is she in 10 years? Will she be walking around, talking, acting like a human being?
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200610/ ... 810220.htm

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:16 am

I apologize if I'm taking things too far off course. I'm fascinated by transhumanism and the singularity, so I tend to babble on. Feel free to tell me to shut up at any time.

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:17 am

udgang99 wrote:Like EveR-2 ... where is she in 10 years? Will she be walking around, talking, acting like a human being?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/18/ever ... ge-fright/

EveR-2 becomes the ultimate peripheral for an AI

(...and probably for more than a few users)

udgang99 · Post by **udgang99** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:40 am

tully wrote: EveR-2 becomes the ultimate peripheral for an AI (...and probably for more than a few users)

I'm not sure what you mean by that. English is not my first language, and looking it up in the dictionary only confuses me even more

lol

Anyway ... googling around, I fell over this clip, and started wondering how many years before we see a full humanoid (like Eve-R) doing that dance???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vwZ5FQEUFg

In all reality, I think within the next decade. But what do I know?!

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:26 am

tully wrote:Ah, a transhumanist.

We'll get there eventually, I don't doubt. I think the process will tke longer to become widespread because the previous generations will initially be against such widespread modification and replacement, but sooner or later it will become acceptable.

Hey, I'm in a previous generation and I'm all for it, though I'd really prefer biological improvements. We won't be able to do that till midcentury, though, and I'll be gone or too old to care or a cyborg.

Unless biotech enables us to control the aging process, there's another problem with partly biological bots: the biological parts will get old and less able to maintain themselves. Treating them as a machine then will raise further questions and legal problems because the tissues involved are human even if the brain is a computer.
It would be more difficult, anyway, than when your dog or cat or horse becomes so sick or disabled you have to decide whether to euthanize it, since it would have the same loyalty and pleasantness but appear to have human level complexity...

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:31 am

udgang99 wrote:
tully wrote: EveR-2 becomes the ultimate peripheral for an AI (...and probably for more than a few users)
I'm not sure what you mean by that. English is not my first language, and looking it up in the dictionary only confuses me even more lol

Don't worry about that. I have enough college credits to have gotten a degree in English and I can see it could have several meanings and still make sense.
Here "peripheral" could mean "less relevant" or "very different from" among other things. Online people tend to abbreviate and be terse -- as I'm sure they do in any language.

tully · Post by **tully** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:32 am

Well like I said above, there are sure to be early adopters or those who would embrace the idea right away...

The technology of Robots ... or what makes them tick?

The technology of Robots ... or what makes them tick?

Re: The technology of Robots ... or what makes them tick?