I have had occasion to read and reread many of the stories...

[ablack50]

I have had occasion to read and reread many of the stories, tho' not any posts, and have noted a few patterns: (1) trivially, there are a number of spelling/grammar issues which in a few cases rise to odd heights (2) story structures and elements shared by diverse writers. has anyone (eg an academic) ever analyzed the thematic structures and what they mean psychologically?

[dale coba]

(1) trivially, there are a number of spelling/grammar issues which in a few cases rise to odd heights

- non-native speakers
- friendly place, no fear of humiliation over spelling
- self-reported Aspergers is frequently described by members here. Aural processing problems are suggested.
- novice writers, perhaps having written very little else, especially using their non-school, non-job-related vocabulary in a fembot story.

(2) story structures and elements shared by diverse writers. has anyone (eg an academic) ever analyzed the thematic structures and what they mean psychologically?

- Anyone? I'd venture, nearly everyone reading here. We're fascinated by the fetish; but also by ourselves as people prone to such a fascination.
- an Academic? No. If anything were written about us, it would be nearly inconceivable that FC members wouldn't quickly stumble over the essay, in the course of our eternal, collective hunt for hot bots to share with the group. The closest would be to generalize from writings about some other, parallel fetish. Or pick key words, and query through our nine years of conversation.

- Dale Coba

[Frostillicus]

Perhaps not based on stories here, but an English professor named David Levy wrote a whole book on the psychology. I think it was called "Love + Sex With Robots" and, yes, it's non-fiction. Seriously, though, sticking the "academic" label is starting to sound elitist. Hell, I remember when the "academics" started ruining poetry night at the local coffee house. Dale's right about the civility we show each other here, so critique and don't criticize please.

[ablack50]

The Aspergers comment struck home; I have often wondered about that myself -- or should I write "...that about myself..."? LOL (acceptable neologism for the blob world, I suppose) -- but ironically had to find common cause at such a site. I was writing of course from the perspective of self-exploration, which perhaps you (or is it you all) are. The subtleties of language and mode/content of expression are no really academic in the sense of being meaningless to everyday life, but are a means to understand ourselves (and this site in a way is a means to that deeper end; remember, "In the beginning was the word..."

A

[Mirage]

Hey, I know I have tons of spelling errors and crap in my stuff (L). My real excuse is TIME issues, I can only type a few times here and there, so, I just really post stuff quickly here, without really spell checking it and such. Only after later, when I have time to reread it, I kringe at my errors. I think people can forgive me for that.

[gynoneko]

I have noticed the same things. However, I understand that many people on these forums either are not native English speakers, do not have a formal education in English (I know college students that can't write or spell), or they are just so caught up in the act of writing about their fantasy, that they don't re-read and correct their work. That used to happen to me, but I would always see the errors in my work later. I have been making a huge effort to make sure my own work is free of most spelling and grammar errors, to make it easier to read and understand. I admit sometimes I cannot understand what people are trying to write, but I don't hold it against them.
As for an academic study, I only know of the few books, like David Levy's, but I have access to huge academic databases and could always look this stuff up. I bet there is more out there than you realize. Did you know about 80% of the internet is actually hidden in databases that are usually filled with academic journals? Well, I happen to have access as a student, so I will probably try looking into this myself, maybe I'll turn it into a report for something.

[Cornelius]

On a side note, what care does someone have about grammatical errors when they claim to have read "most of the stories here", yet they joined 4 days ago & this is their very first post? Smells like either a bot or someone is bored.

[dale coba]

Intellectual curiosity, or boredom?

Depends on the intellect of the subject observed,
and that of the observer, as well.

- Dale Coba

[Ray McCoy]

As for errors, I'll just repeat something that I pointed out to a friend a few days ago. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that most ASFRians are lovers of hard science fiction. Hard SF fans tend to be very intelligent (and accepting) people; after all, you gots to understand the science with the fiction. I've written professionally, and I can say that I type quite a few errors, with the intention of correcting them later. It doesn't help that when I write my own stories, the sexy subject matter distracts me a LOT, leading me to write what I otherwise wouldn't.

So unless you have to outright decipher a story, chances are that the writer isn't deliberately being a sloppy. Even the best writers make tons of mistakes. Hell, riffle through the latest Stephen King, and you'll find about two mistakes every chapter these days...

[gynoneko]

On a side note, what care does someone have about grammatical errors when they claim to have read "most of the stories here", yet they joined 4 days ago & this is their very first post? Smells like either a bot or someone is bored.

I'm sure they don't have to register to read all these things... they just lurk until they decide they want to actually make contact. They could have been unspoken and unregistered users for years before finally signing up.

[dale coba]

I should think, compared to other sites with story forums, ours is rather low-key and informal.
It's easier to stumble into any other site's forum with more types of erotic stories.
We're a single topic site, for a rarely heard about kind of folk.

I'm the kind to speculate about these things, though not for any purpose of putting others down.
Let's not ablack50 into the darkness.

- Dale Coba

[Ray McCoy]

Hear hear! Well said, DC!

[hyperspace51]

YAY IM NOT THE ONLY ASPIE!!

[--NightBattery--]

:> munch, munch (Eating popcorns)

[Baron]

I'm afraid there will never be a truly unbiased "academic" study of ASFR - because of the "F" in the acronym. The "F" is for "Fetish," and any time that word is mentioned there is a built-in reaction most folks have upon hearing it. The same sort of reaction folks used to get whenever sideshow / carnival "freaks" were mentioned. Instant stereotype, in other words. Granted, some fetishes are way more bizarre than others {like fascination with excrement}, but those extremes tend to color the more mundane fetishes, in terms of general public perception. Thus, fembot lovers get lumped in with the "Golden Shower" or hardcore S&M / self-mutilation crowds.

it's an old story, really. I've never EVER considered myself, or any other FC member a "fetishist;" and I'm long on the record as loathing the term. I tend to think about fembots as more a sort of female personality-type {like Valley Girl, naughty librarian, ditzy airhead, sexy sophisticate, etc} than any sort of sexual attraction to machinery / inanimate objects. Probably the closest any "study" of the fascination has come to nailing the subject was ifilm's ASFR short from several years ago, which I believe also had contributions from a couple Greybeards like myself. Aside from that, everything else has fallen into the "circus freak / techno perv" realm, with very few exceptions.

As far as the story forum here is concerned, it's pretty much "anything goes," with unspoken allowances made for the nit-picky stuff like grammar, punctuation, etc. As long as there is solid story material, the rank-and-file here are a rather tolerant and forgiving bunch. There's a wide range of contributors that range from shy amateurs to slumming professional writers, with literally everything in between. It has surges and ebbs of creativity, but generally the writing is of similar calibre, with the individual "takes" each author has providing the spice and zest. Dig in the archives, and you'll find everything from epic serials to gritty pulp-fiction and elaborate running-jokes, with quite a few one-offs that really push the boundaries, for good measure. While this reflects the many diverse tastes of the community, it also reinforces the idea of why there will never {IMO} be a truly academic '"analysis" of the fascination - it simply appeals in too many different ways to neatly pigeonhole.

[dale coba]

I think the "F" in ASFR reflected the old USENET culture: academic, more interested in indexing than judgement; and safely insulated by obscurity. Those old communities were filled with in-jokes, and "fetish" was an entirely self-assumed label. Descriptive, all-encompassing, and non-threatening to those who might have been too shy to de-lurk and reveal their fondness for something far odder than simply lusting after a hot GINO.

- Dale Coba

[--NightBattery--]

ASFR is not a very catchy name if you ask me

[dale coba]

ASFR is not a very catchy name if you ask me

No, it's not - but all those newsfroups with long.names.hierarchically.established.by.scholars.and.morons.with.grudges
worked much better in text as acronyms.

ASFR has a historical claim, pre-dating the WWW by several years;
it is still, I believe, the simplest keyword identifier that we uniquely have.

I should think almost NO ONE who isn't one of us, or an academic or amateur scholar of psycho-sexual practices, would ever recognize those four letters together.

Consider ASFR one of the secret signals available for finding other fembot fans out, without giving yourself away to the squares.

- Dale Coba


(what other hints would covertly signal to a kindred spirit? We never did get a handkerchief code color.
what fembot trivia questions, asked directly or indirectly, should one of us likely know?

• "I can't remember, what was Angelina Jolie's first big film role?"
  
  "Quick: give the proper names of six actual Fembots!"
  (accept both Bionic and Austin)

please, more of these!

[Ray McCoy]

I actually always thought the wind-up key on a necklace was a great idea.

[--NightBattery--]

I actually always thought the wind-up key on a necklace was a great idea.

I, In change thought a small gear in a necklace or in the string of my hat was symbolic enough, or perhaps the phrase"Deus ex machina" i guess there are some bifurcations in... fembot erotica

[dale coba]

I actually always thought the wind-up key on a necklace was a great idea.

Yes, perhaps with her name engraved.
For her Owner, the ubiquitous Apple Remote, but stamped with the silhouette wind-up doll from a certain web-site long ago...

- Dale Coba

[Grendizer]

ASFR has a historical claim, pre-dating the WWW by several years;
it is still, I believe, the simplest keyword identifier that we uniquely have.

I should think almost NO ONE who isn't one of us, or an academic or amateur scholar of psycho-sexual practices, would ever recognize those four letters together.

Consider ASFR one of the secret signals available for finding other fembot fans out, without giving yourself away to the squares.

- Dale Coba


(what other hints would covertly signal to a kindred spirit? We never did get a handkerchief code color.
what fembot trivia questions, asked directly or indirectly, should one of us likely know?

• "I can't remember, what was Angelina Jolie's first big film role?"
  
  "Quick: give the proper names of six actual Fembots!"
  (accept both Bionic and Austin)

please, more of these!

Gray wristband? Every cause has a wristband these days.

Regarding the op, in a community like this I prefer to contribute formal criticism in private. I don't intend to hurt anyone, especially people who are putting themselves on the line in a way that is more public than they might have experienced before. I come from a world where harsh (read: honest) critique is considered a high form of respect, since it is entrusting the truth to a fellow writer in the context of trying to better craft a consensual lie (fiction). I see many faults with the writing here (my writing included, even especially -- we are our own harshest critics, after all), but I also see the spark of beauty that laces nearly every work that intrigues me enough to read past the title. Sometimes I'm truly surprised in a positive way with what I find. In response I contributed a while ago to the wiki a bit of writing advice that I hope can "lift all boats." By inclination, habit, and training, I obsessively edit my work, and I hope it shows. I hope that the result will encourage people to polish their own work even more. I feel doing this will benefit the community as a whole, because right now imagination is the heart of what goes on here, and the better we let that imagination shine the stronger and more fulfilling this community will become.

[gynoneko]

I know my work may not be greatly received by everyone, but I enjoy writing them. I try my best to make sure the writing is at least decent, with as few spelling and grammar errors as I can. I often re-read my story many times as I write it out and change things. I am always open for serious constructive critiques.

[Grendizer]

I know my work may not be greatly received by everyone, but I enjoy writing them. I try my best to make sure the writing is at least decent, with as few spelling and grammar errors as I can. I often re-read my story many times as I write it out and change things. I am always open for serious constructive critiques.

I feel the grammar and spelling issue is given too much weight. When it is correct, it is a good thing, for sure. It does aid in the flow of reading. But the most important aspects are the elements of the story (character, plot, pace, atmosphere, etc.), not how they are physically presented. Words and their correct usage matter, but not nearly as much as the ideas and images they convey. Good grammar and spelling allow the words to disappear and ensure that what elements are there rise to the front of the reader's mind unimpeded. Something else that matters more than grammar and spelling is "style." What I mean by that are things like diction, using the active voice, and the control of adverb and "to be" usage (was, am, were, etc.) which can sap writing of its vitality. Merely following the tiny classic Strunk and White's Elements of Style is enough make many people much better writers. Also there's Write Tight, which helps a writer's prose become economical (something I'm still working on). Another great book is Lajos Egri's Art of Dramatic Writing, which teaches a writer how to use character to produce all the other elements of writing.

[Grendizer]

I agree with Kishin fully. What he's describing is called "exposition." What that awful film he described did is called an "expository lump," and if that sounds vaguely grotesque, good. It should. Don't do it. Let your characters be who they are and get out of the way. You wouldn't try and describe the finer points of alternator design just to get to the part where your heroin slams her car door in disgust and speeds off toward the freeway would you? Well, don't do it in your scifi either. It can be hard, I know, for two reasons. First you love your world, which is understandable, but remember why the world exists: the story. Second, it's reasonable that you might think the reader would be confused by some detail you created out of whole cloth for a non-existent future, but you can follow Kishin's advice on this: work it into dialogue or action. Just remember to avoid having characters tell each other stuff they already know!