Scripts

Share your fembot fiction and fantasies here or discuss the craft of writing by asking for or giving suggestions.
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Miss Silver Karakuri
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Scripts

Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:55 am

Yesterday in the chatroom there was some discusion about the fact that in general there seems to be this serious lack of video media which seems to be good. Mostly it would seem we were griping the usual gripe you hear, but then I asked why haven't we done some work ourselves. There was some gripe about the money involved and the sort, which made me wonder.

You see I have been around a good deal of people who on almost NO budget have put together some pretty good artsy video shorts, which then goes around the queer film circut, (what can I say I have hung around a bunch of cool queer people in my day). What they do isn't particularly impressive from a production standpoint we are talking some money but not a great deal of it.

There was some work in the production of one work I believe by Robolvr at one time, and I heard it was somewhat promising actually, but how about others? Are we attempting to make our own work beyond the occasional story and manip?

Mostly where things start is a good script, and so I was wondering if people would be interested in attempting conversion of do-able stories or scenes from stories into scripts (with permission by the authors if its not your own work of course) or have your own scripts or ideas for such might want to put them forth or start work on such things, and see what can be come up with, and then maybe if anyone has the equipment work can be done to try and make them more of a reality.

Its a step I think in the right direction for getting to see what we want to see in our media, even just brainstorming last night there were some great ideas being discussed which wouldn't take huge amts of effort if one just thought of interesting ways to apply it to the moving image.

Who knows maybe soon we can be trading short TechnoFet clips instead of just pictures and stories?
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Re: Scripts

Post by Android675 » Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:14 pm

When Keraptis, Robolvr and I produced "Upgrade," one of the most difficult hurdels to overcome was the lack of talent. Who were we going to get to dress up in silver spandex and act like a robot? Past that, the person would have to be convincing (and good!) at being robotic. It was a miracle that we found the talent, and even more of a miracle that they were able to pull off some pretty convincing robot acting.

Don't get me wrong, though - there were a lot of other hurdles that we had to get over. That was just the first and most critical, because we didn't have control over it. Another problem was adapting an ASFR theme into a shootable story. Much of what drives ASFR stories is (obviously) sex. And we definitely didn't want to do porn - not to mention that it would be much more difficult finding talent for something like that. The fact that we couldn't do any special effects (like panels opening) was also a limiting factor. Getting the crew was an issue as well. As was the tremendous amount of time spent on the writing, shooting prep, editing, dubbing, etc. Overall, we spent about five months on the project from start to finish, much of it on late night conference calls or all night/weekend editing sessions. Total cost to us: $2600. Total received so far in sales: a lot less than that.

We've played around with the idea of doing something something else to follow up on "Upgrade," but I know we don't have the time or money to commit to something like that at the moment.

Believe me, I'd love to see someone else do some good robot video. However, having done it, I wanted to let you know what you're up against!

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Re: Scripts

Post by Android675 » Wed Oct 09, 2002 6:16 pm

Did I say hurdels? I meant hurdles.

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Post by ehy » Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:24 pm

I love the idea. I'd be happy to write a script - maybe based on one of my stories; maybe something fresh. Or to review someone else's with an eye toward suggestions for improvement. BUT, that and shooting ideas are really all I'm prepared to contribute. I know that probably doesn't push it all that much closer to happening, but there it is.

If anyone has the resources and interest to actually find the talent and make the movie, I say great! Feel free to let me know what the parameters are that you can work with (how many actors/actresses, how much if any sexuality, idea of what you can do for sets, costumes, special effects, and so on - and what kind of a story you want to do) and I'd love to try putting together a script that would work.

Heck, one of the reasons I'm not writing more lately is that it just doesn't do so much to *write* as it would to *see*.

EHY

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Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:36 pm

Well how is this we design some parameters, ie a simple set of guidelines so that the shooting would be easier, and anyone can submit the script if anyone says "Hey, ya know I like that idea I have the equipment, Lets Do It" and maybe we can see it happen?

Here are some suggestions

Keeping the numbers of people involved to a bare minimum, ie one 'gynoid' or two at the most.

Keeping the sex scenes (if any) to softporn... and not the whole idea of the video, but rather if any part of a larger storyline.

Anyone else have some suggestions?

I also want to stress that its just to create a bunch of scripts so that if something really good comes along that someone WANTS to put to video or something they can cause its there to use, after they contact and get permission of course.
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Post by keraptis » Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:35 am

To echo what Android675 said, the problem here is finances. We did "Upgrade" on a shoestring budget of $2600 and didn't come close to making our money back. What's missing is not people with script ideas, or people saying "I wish someone would make a movie." What's missing is people willing to PAY to see the work.

So if you can find a producer who's willing to create ASFR shorts with his/her own cash and no expectation of breaking even on the project, great ... though I don't see what that person's motivation would be.

I am certain that our group would be working on a sequel to "Upgrade" right now if more people had bought the first video. Even breaking even would have made it worth doing again. Barring that, the only way I could imagine doing a new movie would be to raise the necessary funds in advance from people willing to pay to see the work come to light. Find 20 or 30 people willing to put in $100 each and you could finance another project, otherwise I just don't see how it would get done. (Not to mention, MOST of those 20 to 30 would have to agree to be silent partners from a creative standpoint or the project would be completely paralyzed.)

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Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:57 am

So realistically, its a finances thing, quick question how long was upgrade (in mins)? Ive seen people throw together works for much cheaper than $2600 but then they were short films 10 mins and the sort (if they went over a grand they were spending too much money), granted finding someone to play the 'gynoid' in the film won't be that easy (there are only a handful of us women involved in this fet/genre). Thats the MAIN logistical problem after you get a script and equipment together.

Now the importance you say is on finances and attempting to make back the funds used and perhaps doing a little profit. Yeah that would be nice, but then it seems there aren't that many people able to finance works being done. More luck would be perhaps found by putting a good piece of work together and the finding what film circuts would find such a film as a good thing to show and you can drum up support for future works by gaining popularity that way, if its good that is and sometimes you can get some money from the circuts as well, its in no way a cash cow, but you can get something.

Here in Canada, as long as one knows how to write a grant proposal, there are a number of institutions (like the National Film Board Of Canada) which fund money to projects dealing with culture and alternative sexualities, and there are many ways you can write things so you can get money from some places youd never have thought you would get money from, its all in the wording. Yes you might get turned down a lot but its all part of the process.

Although you have to know what your shooting and what you need to acquire for the funds to be used for. Artistic little ditties don't take much and $50 here $100 there can do wonders for such a small budgeted little project. Totally expecting to make the money back on something seems unlikely however in most projects, which is why some personal funds that are used should be limited to spendable cash that one is NOT expected to be seen again. Plus the experience makes the next one cheaper, or where more funds should have been devoted.

The first bunch are always cheezy which is why its good to focus on scripts and ideas solely to help weed out the really cheezy ideas and then take the good ideas and walk through how you might shoot it, see which ones are doable, see which ones can be made that would be cool and then focus on that and then when your sure focus on getting equipment money and people.

Obviously I don't know the process you three went through to create upgrade but I am sure you now know ways you could have done it better or ways you could have saved money as well.
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Post by andoroido » Fri Oct 11, 2002 11:01 am

An alternative method (which I'd love to try if I had the software)
for producing ASFR film would be video mainpulation.

There have been thousands of photo mainpulations.
Home computers are powerful enough these days to do video manipulation, easily equaling cheesy 1980/early90s pre-CGI effects.
Such a project would require a lotta work, but could be done by a single person (with a lot of spare time)

Anything could be used for the source video, a clip of your favorite actress, whatever... use sound manipulation to give her an android voice, manually slow down, rewind, loop the film to produce malfunctions, and if you want to get really technical, overlay some video F/X of circuitry or just the cheapo lightning and sparks method used in the popular Hong Kong films, like Robotrix or I Love Maria.

The cost would be zero, if there's a good shareware video editor.
Of course such things would have to be bootleg for legal reasons.
We could even "improve" already existing ASFR movie scenes, making our own improved "Director's cuts" for our tastes.

The biggest bonus of all, is such movies could be instantly shared with the whole community. We'd just need a place to store them.

People here obviously enjoy photomanipulating their favorite women, video manipping would be just as appealing, I guess, just a lot harder to do.

Thoughts? Pointers to video software?

andoroido

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Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:34 pm

While I did think of this and regarding the discussion in the chat room about having scripts and stuff, I was seeing the video manipulation strictly for new works. Simply maniping OTHERS works I never thought of, I am surprised people haven't done it yet, it certainly would be cool. They have the The Phantom Edit, why can't we do some short scenes here and there which are very ummm enticing.
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Post by ehy » Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:02 pm

I'm curious - could you provide some breakdown on what the $2600 went to? It sounds entirely believable; I'm just wondering whether anyone here might be able to think of economies you didn't, or be able to provide access to expensive resources more cheaply, or something of that kind. At the very least, it'd be interesting information for anyone thinking of doing or funding a project to have.

As for video manipulation - I suspect the hardest part of the project is getting people who can act. I don't expect to see good video-manipped acting any time soon from any non-professional house - even things like Star Wars generally use human models to base the CGI movements on.

EHY

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Post by keraptis » Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:55 pm

This thread has raised some very interesting issues / questions. Let me try to give you all my perspective on them, with the following three disclaimers:
1. I don't speak for Android675 and Robolvr, though the three of us know each other pretty well, we have several shared experiences working on ASFR rojects, and we usually see things from a reasonably consistent point of view.
2. This topic raises, for me at least, some significant frustrations I've felt around the projects we've done, and some of that frustration is bound to show through.
3. If this post feels like a rant in places, it's meant to be thought-provoking but NOT antagonistic or inflammatory. I'm not attacking anyone ... but I hope that by being completely honest I can get a few useful ideas across.

The first question was about how long "Upgrade" is. It's 25 minutes long, though we also did a 60-minute outtakes video. I get the distinct impression that some on this thread are completely unfamiliar with the film, so I suggest you check out http://www.geocities.com/GuyTalon/upgrade.htm for more info. For some reason (extremely poor site design), there is no link to the order page ... you have to visit http://www.stuckfastprod.com/Captured-Moments/order.htm instead.

The second question was about exactly where the $2600 went. Android675 can answer this far better than I can -- he was the director and was responsible for the budget and running the project. I can say, though, that $2600 is EXTREMELY cheap for this project. We were lucky in that Android675 had access to much of the equipment necessary to do the project, particularly post-production and media duplication work. The cameras, lighting, etc. had to be paid for, and of course we had to hire the crew and actresses. We had to buy costumes, of course, as well as blank tapes and DVDs. But we cut corners wherever possible -- we had only one day of rehearsal and one day of shooting, and we even filmed it in a friend's apartment. Everything was done in the most frugal way possible, believe me.

Just as important as the $2600 is the huge amount of time we invested in the project. The three of us spent many long nights writing and refining the script ... and then Android675 did all the rest. I'm talking about conducting auditions, negotiating with the distributor (who of course took his cut of all proceeds), hiring the actresses and crew, running rehearsals, and doing the actual shoot. And then there was post-production, where he edited the whole thing together into the final cut of the film. He also hand-duplicated all of the tapes and DVDs. I'm estimating he spent a couple hundred hours in all. It was a truly amazing effort.

So while finances are important (without money you can't even get started), cash is not the only cost here. There's a tremendous investment of work that should not be underestimated. And there's also an emotional investment that goes into any creative project. Even if you are doing something that doesn't cost any cash -- such as this intriguing idea of doing a pure computer-generated animated short -- you shouldn't discount the very real time-and-effort costs of your project. So my advice for anyone doing any sort of work -- a story, a script, a photo-manip, a drawing, a comic, or especially an expensive project like a photo shoot or film -- is this: if the personal satisfaction you'll gain from the work itself is not enough motivation for you, you should not do it. You certainly won't make money, and you'll inevitably be disappointed in the amount of feedback, inspiration, and encouragement you'll receive from your intended audience. You may get a handful of people to give you their comments, and hopefully praise ... and if you're really lucky you may find one or two who will collaborate with you on your work. But experience has proven how difficult it is to create any real lasting momentum among the larger group.

This was our experience with "Upgrade," which got a nice buzz of interest early on but failed to generate much discussion. We certainly didn't feel like anyone at all was begging us to do a sequel. I think very few people in the community realized how much effort had gone into it or how lucky we were to have anything this ambitious produced from within the group. But I don't think "Upgrade" is at all unique in this regard. The discussion forum and its predecessor have seen MANY threads in which creators -- whether writing stories, creating artwork, etc. -- have begged and pleaded for feedback and publicly lamented how little support and encouragement they receive. We all KNOW that this community is much larger than the number of registered users of this board ... we KNOW that the things we create reach an audience of at least a few hundred, maybe even a thousand in some cases ... but the silence that greets new material can be deafening and disheartening.

And I'm talking about FREE stuff here, folks. Forget about getting people to actually PAY for anything. The past couple of years have seen several flare-ups around pay content. The predictable pattern goes something like this:
1. Person starts with a dream of creating a site full of ASFR content. They MAY be looking to treat it like a business and make money, but 99% of the time they are simply trying to cover the cost of hosting the site, etc.
2. Person gets a critical mass of content, puts the site up, and signs up a few members.
3. Person realizes they are having an extremely hard time getting enough members to fund the site. Morale drops off precipitously. Along with morale, frequency of updates drops too.
4. Those loyal few who are actually paying grow increasingly angry as they get less and less for their money.
5. Bitter acrimony ensues ... rifts form in what is usually a cohesive community ... the site usually goes away.

The other predictable pattern goes something like this:
1. Group creates a site with the express purpose of making money by delivering ASFR-ish content.
2. Group realizes that the only way to attract a large enough audience to be profitable is to diversify beyond just ASFR to broader sci-fi / hypno / fetish themes.
3. Over time group skews content more and more toward graphic sex, bondage, humiliation, etc. ... because, apparently, that's where the money is.
4. After a while the appeal of the site from a pure ASFR standpoint starts to become pretty unclear.

(No offense intended in either of the above assessments ... to each their own ... just one observer's view of things.)

In my humble opinion, anyone who's been paying attention to ASFR (as I have been since 1997 or so) knows that over time, there has been less and less new material of any kind being produced. I think this community could do a much better job of encouraging those who are creating, or trying to create, quality material. Part of the problem is that the Internet is an anonymous medium and there are many people consuming content anonymously without ever giving back, even if it's just a word of praise. Part of the problem is the amazing speed with which we consume new content. Even a blockbuster film that "everyone" goes to see holds onto "water cooler" status for a month AT MOST. A typical post of new ASFR material is fortunate to hold people's attention for longer than five days. I'm serious ... watch closely and you'll see. Even if money is not your goal (as it never was with us), there's very little payoff for something that may have taken weeks, even months, to produce.

So, before I sound bitter (I'm not) ... let me say a few positive things. I am extremely encouraged that anyone is even talking about an ambitious project like a film. If anything we may have learned making "Upgrade" is of use to you, we'd be glad to help. And for the record I'll be first in line to offer my financial support -- i.e., I will buy a copy -- so long as I believe it's quality content and not thinly-veiled hardcore porn.

I think you should be careful, though, before you spend lots of energy on scripts and such if you don't have the means, in the end, to produce the film. If you want control over the project you need someone who'll produce it for you on your terms ... either someone in the group who's willing to donate their time and equipment (good luck!!!) or someone you need to hire. I don't know anything about the grant money you mentioned -- it's a very interesting angle -- but I am skeptical that going that route will get you the project you really want. I would imagine that the people funding your project will require you to attempt to appeal to the largest possible audience. For example, they may fund a documentary-style project that explores ASFR concepts for the uninitiated, but that won't be particularly novel to the people in this group. They would be unlikely to fund a project that is so well targeted to this group that most people simply won't "get it." (See recent posts expressing skepticism over the likely ASFR appeal of the "Westworld" remake for corroborating evidence.)

In the end, anyone who can get a project, however humble, off the ground has my enthusiastic support, and I'll be first in line to cheer them on (and pay for the privilege to get my own copy of the work). And if anyone knows a better way than we did to get "$50 here $100 there" to fund something truly special ... then hey, more power to you!

I sincerely hope that such a project will happen and that we'll all support it in all the ways required to spark additional, increasingly ambitious, projects. Best of luck to you!

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Interesting...

Post by DollSpace » Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:09 pm

Cool idea...I think many of the stories floating around in our community would make great movies..in the budget arena, I would nominate my story "Clockwork Summer" for people to take a look at, only because the special effects would be limited to a wind-up scene and would rely mostly on acting...(or you could switch the time period to now or the future and make her a true (but limited) android, still relying mostly on acting and maybe a charging scene?)....but drawbacks would be her age (she'd be 17 or 18 or so)..the lack of any sex scenes and the relative length..but whatever...just a suggestion lol ;) :roll:

But if feedback or creative input is needed on writing or plot for any story (new or old or whatever) let me know :)

Ciao
Ryn
Last edited by DollSpace on Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ehy » Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:44 pm

Thanks for your input, Keraptis! I'd like to respond to a couple of points...

BTW, I've bought and watched Upgrade. Its content wasn't really what I was looking for (though it was as advertised), which is why I haven't really commented on it, but I will point out that it was very well done - much more professional than I had expected. The acting is definitely good, production quality did not suffer for being cheap, no typical backlight problems. If the story is one that turns you on, you should have no hesitation about buying it.


[quote="keraptis"]
$2600 is EXTREMELY cheap for this project. We were lucky
in that Android675 had access to much of the equipment necessary to do the project, particularly post-production and media duplication work. The cameras, lighting, etc. had to be paid for, and of course we had to hire the crew and actresses. We had to buy costumes, of course, as well as
blank tapes and DVDs. But we cut corners wherever possible -- we had
[/quote]

I agree, it is quite cheap (I've done some theater work and have an idea of what that costs); I'm not trying to second-guess. But I was wondering about details - e.g. what did you actually need to pay for cameras, for lighting; what did you pay crew and actresses... that sort of thing. I realize you (or Android675) might not be comfortable disclosing the exact budget, for whatever reason, but I'd really be interested in some hard numbers.

[quote="keraptis"]
Just as important as the $2600 is the huge amount of time we invested in the project.[/quote]

Good point... but I have a feeling more people are willing to put in time, in one form or another, than money. Could be wrong, of course.

[quote="keraptis"]
In my humble opinion, anyone who's been paying attention to ASFR (as I have been since 1997 or so) knows that over time, there has been less and less new material of any kind being produced.
[/quote]

Really? That's not my impression at all, and I've been around since 98 or so. There are robot and freeze videos being made now (including Upgrade). Still seem to be plenty of stories, though there are dry spells. I haven't been watching photomanips much, but it seems there are lots of them still happening. I can't say we're having a huge upwelling of ASFR production, but it doesn't seem to be going away.

[quote="keraptis"]
I think this community could do a much better job of encouraging those who are creating, or trying to create, quality material.
[/quote]

I'd have to agree with that - and I've been somewhat guilty myself of saying "Wow, that was great, I should write the author!" and never getting around to doing it. On the other hand, I did create The ASFR Collections ([url]http://members.fortunecity.com/asfr/index.html[/url]) precisely to try to help good authors get more recognition... sadly it too seems to have fallen by the wayside.


That all said... I do hope more good videos can happen. I'd buy 'em. Stories are great, but it's much better to *see* the androids. And photomanips can be nice, but for me at least the best androids are the ones that look perfectly human, but *behave* in an artificial way, and it's very hard to capture that in a still picture - especially when you have to work from an existing picture you happen to have found. Video... you can do lots of great stuff in video.

And I'll see what I can do about writing some scripts. At least we can imagine the videos we could have, if only.

EHY

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Post by ehy » Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:04 pm

ok, I guess what I'm really thinking is:

I want to do this. I want to make a movie. Write it, direct it, make it really good. I want to do it for the same reason I want to write stories - it'd be fun, and satisfying, and I think I'd do it well. But the investment (in money, time, loss of anonymity) looks way too imposing.

So I want to get more hard info about the investment out there. Maybe I'll be able to say, "Yup, that's too imposing, give it up," or maybe someone else will be inspired to say "Yup, I understand why it's hard, but I can do it, now where can I find a writer or director" and talk me into being part of it... or something.

:-)

EHY

P.S. I'm also thinking someday I'll start to consistently get this wacky BBCode thing right.

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Bingo!!

Post by fection » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:29 am

Hello.
I'd just like to register my agreement with regard to encouragement.
I'm as guilty as anyone else (and there ARE people who are really good at providing feedback), but I think that the (general) lack of feedback you get (from a story, say) is the primary reason the ol' creative juices have dried up (MY creative juices - if you know what I mean....). Call me self-obsessed, but THAT's the reason I write stories. I want to know what people think of them. And people do from time to time (I've have had great repsonses a couple times). Although I've also had someone (I can't remember who) attack me quite aggressively with regard to one of my stories. At the time I replied in a rational, measured fashion. I think now I'd just tell him to fuck off....
Anyway. Maybe we could have a section on the board dedicated to feedback. It might keep the issue in peoples' minds and make it quick and easy to provide an encouraging word. Awwwww.........
fection.

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Post by keraptis » Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:42 am

A couple of thoughts ...

EHY, thanks for the kind words about Upgrade, and thanks for buying it in the first place! I can understand if the specific storyline we created (a transformation story with no real sexual content other than the sight of girls in silver spandex) wasn't exactly what you were looking for. When we made it, we were hoping (1) it might actually turn a few skeptics on to transformation stories -- you may remember a long thread in which many people thought transformation was synonymous with rape -- and (2) enough people would think it was quality work from a production standpoint to encourage us to do more films around different themes. Seriously, we actually thought we'd do well enough to warrant a second project with more effects, such as exposed circuitry, physical assembly / disassembly, etc. Or more than two actresses. Or a set that looked more futuristic. Or an outdoor shoot. Or ...

Anyway, Android675 can answer the money questions in more detail. (He's out of town this weekend but I'll nudge him to visit this thread.)

As for my point about declining content updates, it's not a straight downward line. The past year or two has seen an influx of a few of notable new contributors -- and for the first time a handful of active female members which is in itself a giant leap forward. But the pattern with any particular individual is usually a period of heavy activity followed by decline. Many of the first wave of major contributors (Robotdoll, Noidguy, Rotwang, Kishin, RC, and others) are much more quiet than they once were ... and later waves (everyone from Xeran to Mirage to href) have also scaled back after expressing frustration. [I don't mean to be trying to speak for any of those people ... hope I'm not way off in my assessment.]

I think, EHY, if you're bringing script / story ideas to the table and want to turn that into a film, it will be difficult to find someone who'll produce it. But I think a few promising ideas have come out of this thread. One certainly is your idea of writing ASFR screenplays even if they never get filmed, and enjoying the "if only" conversations you hope to inspire. Very little ASFR fiction is written in play / screenplay format, so it's worth a shot for its novelty.

The second way to go is to produce something visual, but cheaper to create. You could go all the way and produce an animated short with computer-generated images, which would be fantastic. But you could also get pretty far with a medium like Flash, or even a comic-book format with individual pictures and captions. Those are formats where you CAN find people in this community willing to lend a hand with their skills -- and if you can make your story work in those formats, you know you've got something that could in theory be translated to film provided it doesn't call for big-bucks special effects.

Just think what a real talent like Rick van Koert of 4F could do with a high-quality ASFR script. He's running a pay site, but again if you could convince him people would make it worth his while, you'd end up with a mini-masterpiece.

Finally, about the feedback issue. I suspect I've touched a nerve with that one. There most definitely is a need to address the problem. One idea that might be interesting is a moderated discussion format ... essentially someone (like Sabina) would host a chat featuring one or more creators who's making themselves available to discuss a recent project (could be in production or just releaseed). Others could join the chat and the goal would be Q&A, suggestions, feedback, and group discussion about the themes raised by the work. The chat could later continue on as a message-board thread. I'd suggest that the work in question, or at least a link to it, should appear in a centralized area (maybe a section of Fembot Central, outside the BBS) dedicated to this group's original work. Right alongside each work should be links to the feedback thread for that work and the creator's contact info.

Hope those are useful ideas ... and hope enough members of the group see this thread and get a chance to think about this.

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Loss of Anonymity

Post by andoroido » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:43 am

ehy wrote:I want to write stories - it'd be fun, and satisfying, and I think I'd do it well. But the investment (in money, time, loss of anonymity) looks way too imposing.
I think the key to it all is "loss of anonymity"...

In these days of scandals and mudraking, stricter campus browsing policies, children using the family computer, cookies, spyware, profiling by ad companies, and office workers getting fired for having visited porn sites, loss of anonymity is the biggest fear.

I was a lurker for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time (I remember when asfr.com was the only thing going) afraid to post anything. [I still scrub my cache, history, cookies, etc. before letting anyone use my PC] I've barely convinced myself to take the small risk of posting under a pseudonym, but there are other lines I will not cross.

There will be no way to solve this problem of fear of exposure. Of course this fear of exposure also limits any sales of ASFR films. Credit card statements, even with innocent sounding names, can easily be figured out by a spouse, or an IRS auditor. The Internet would have to develop some system just as anonymous as cash to even solve half of that problem.

Those of us in the international community have to worry about local customs inspections, censorship standards, and strict penalties. (Though Stuckfast's PG -rated movies make for a welcome change)

I think the estimate that there may be 1000 ASFRians could easily be true, and the vast majority are probably afraid of exposure; to a wife, a roommate, their own children, a snooping co-worker, etc.

The previous discussion "Have you told your mate?" was pretty revealing about the hugely negative results of being exposed, except for a few very lucky people.

I am really shocked (and admire the courage) of people like android675 et al. being so public with this, "exposing" themselves for the benefit of the rest of us. Very cool, I salute you. 8)

On a side note, I don't beleive that the amount of ASFR material made available is decreasing each year.. It's just that we've dug up any and all the ASFR material created since Fritz Lang's Metropolis... a single year's creations seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the accumulation of all the ASFR material of the entire 20th century. (Has it all been found?)

andoroido

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Post by phantom-x » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:30 am

You make some excellent points androido, the reason alot of people don't put more into developing these kind of projects is out of fear. For all we know someone out there wants to invest serious money in a project of this nature but won't out of fear of ridicule. But when you see articles in major magazines like Playboy and Stuff openly talking about female androids you have to wonder, who are they targetting? There's probably thousands of people out there that are into this sort of thing and would support film makers more if it were not for the embarassent they would face. I commend anyone that will make an effort to proceed with film making because someone has to get the ball rolling. Silverkarakuri is absolutely right when she says that the Canadian government could provide a grant for a film project. I've seen grants go to projects far beyond strange, like $25000 dollars to nail dead rabbits to trees and call it art or $50000 to a movie that was practically a porno 'Bubbles Galore". Here in Canada they love to throw money at just about anyone who will request it......just have solid proposal readyjust in case. So to all you budding filmakers head north!! You could end up with a much bigger budget than you would ever expect....

Phantom-X

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Post by ehy » Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:40 pm

Here's a wacky idea I had earlier:

What about a radio play?

Not on real radio, of course, but without the video? Audio is clearly inferior to video, but still seems like it would be much superior to mere text, as sound is in many ways more evocative than text. Writing a script might be tougher, as you need to find ways to convey the ideas we want using just voices and sound effects... but with the right script, production should be a hell of a lot easier. We might even be able to do a credible job with just people in the community, without anybody having to leave home, if some people are willing to record their voices (which for most of us are more anonymous than our faces) and are able to act vocally.

Consider:


- Script could be reviewed, edited, discussed etc. purely online

- Actors/actresses could audition online. Most modern computers have audio inputs; Windows comes with a bare-bones audio capture program, and recordings can be emailed or uploaded. I think even realtime audio conferencing via computer isn't too difficult, using relatively inexpensive and general-purpose equipment. And at worst, someone could record their voice on a tape recorder and mail the tape.

- Once a cast is selected, each actor/actress records his or her part the same way - probably reading each line several different times so a directory can select the best version of each line - and sends them to the director. (Or, better, audio conferencing can be used for the director to hear each line as it's read and give feedback, and maybe even to get multiple actors to be able to work together.) I know cartoon audio tracks are not always recorded with multiple actors together - this might even be the usual way of doing it.

- Sound effects and music can be recorded the same way

- The director uses an audio editing tool (Cool Edit would do the job; I'm sure there are other tools) to pick out the right pieces, combine them together, and produce a finished product.

- The finished product can be distributed online!


No budget needed for sets, costumes, transportation, cameras, gaffers... it will surely take lots of time to do, and as I said the right script, but it sounds to me like it would be much more doable than a movie.

Thoughts?

EHY

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Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Sun Oct 13, 2002 5:53 pm

There are a few ideas of this somewhat being planned and done, WinterRose has been playing with the idea for a while now, but I know he wouldn't at all mind if there were others being done as well. I have done a few spoken word pieces and I have an MP3.com space which I have put them up for people to listen to (email me silverkarakuri@diary-x.com if your interested in that page) and I have told Rose that if she gets something to that stage and she sees a use for me playing a part in it, I would be honored to do so.

Infact right now I am working on a specific set of audio files dealing with TechnoFet of a different nature which I have teamed up with Rose on as well, I won't say that its totally MY baby, but Rose is kind of prime guineapig for it, and he is mostly a content editor with the project, ie She listens to it and says 'Gawd that sucks, do it OVER!' and so I do it over for him. Its deals with something both She and I have a great deal of cross interest in and we have been exchanging massive emails about subject matters relating to it and other like things the last few weeks.

Im still waiting on him to get back to me but she has a lot on his plate at the moment.

PS Yes I know there is serious pronoun dysphoria in this post.
Miss Silver Karakuri

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Post by Brytestar » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:56 pm

Scripts huh?

I can write a script (or teleplay) and do a little artwork by hand.

But I don't know WHO would look at it and convert it to video?

It would be neat to see my stories as well as a few other "come alive".

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He speaks...finally!

Post by robolvr » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:52 pm

Hello everyone. Sorry for taking so long to respond to this thread, but there's been so much good information in this thread that it's been hard to find a good jumping off point. But here I go anyway...

For a long time, I was like most everyone else and thought that doing an ASFR movie would be awesome. And then after many conversations, Android675 (A675), Keraptis, and I decided to do one. It was a very interesting endeavor to bring to life something that was personally a vision we all had. Of course, little did we know what we were getting into. So, hopefully in my ramblings---and that's the right word for this---folks will get something good out of it.

The first step we had to come up with was an idea for a script. Luckily enough, we had a story in mind as the basis for out movie. If you start from scratch, it might be a different challenge. ADVICE: Agree on what you want before you get deep into the project. We decided from the get-go what we wanted to go into the movie, and that makes it easier while shooting and editing.

Then, there's the money. We decided early on that we wanted to have high standards in our production. Producing a video isn't cheap, and the more people you have on board, the more economical it is. But...the problem with bringing more financial backers on board is the fact that they will want a say in what goes into the movie. 10 people with 10 different ideas can kill you before you start. ADVICE: Make sure you decide on your "team". Keep your team as small as you can, and still get enough financial backing to do it.

Next, we contacted a production company/distributor to help in the making of the movie. This of course, upped our budget. Also, by involving them, we loss some of our control as well. But that was required by us to get our movie made. Our original script had to be trimmed by several pages because of time and budget limitations. ADVICE: Keep the limiting factors in mind when polishing up your script, so you can make it doable.

Getting talent also proved to be QUITE a challenge. For those of you who have seen the video, we found two very good actresses to play our parts. But what you didn't see is the dozens of actresses we had to audition to find these two. It turned out to be extremely difficult to find talent who understood exactly what we were looking for. ADVICE: write your ASFR script, but don’t forget to make sure that outside people will get it. Keep that in mind as your writing, especially if someone not into ASFR will be in your picture.

Now, I know several folks were asking about our budget. While A675 has specifics, I will try to tell you what I know. Our original budget was about $2000, and that's with a LOT of cutting corners. Among some of the things in our budget:
---2 actresses,
---sound guy,
---cinematographer,
---gaffer,
---set designer,
---costuming,
---craft services,
---casting coordinator,
---camera,
---videotape,
Some of the ways we tried to save money: use residences for sets, combining jobs, doing our own editing. By the end, we still wound up spending a lot more than we originally had planned on. ADVICE: If you go “high-roller” on your production, expect it to be more than you think.

As to the issue of giving up anonymity, I would have to agree and disagree with that statement. Yes, to make a video like this, you do have to come out of the shadows and say, “I want an ASFR film!” But on the same time, there are plenty of ways to do it and still be somewhat anonymous. Staying anonymous was the one of the reason we went to a production company to help with the video than trying to do it all ourselves. It does allow for some distance, which is good if you’re worried. So there are ways to get involved with sacrificing your privacy.

And, I’m very much in agreement that we as fans should be a lot more appreciative of the artisans who do provide wonderful materials. (Those who can…do. Those who can’t…run a web site off of AOL that half not working. *grin*) I know creators would love a place to get feedback and discussion off of their stories and ASFR in general. Let’s hope that

Alright, I have been going on and on for a while here. (“Duh, RL.”) I know you’re tired of this, so let me say in conclusion, I hope more folks get interested in wanting to develop scripts and produce videos. From personal experience, I can say this is one of them “the journey is better than the destination” things. (And a big thanks to everyone who bought and supported our endeavor!)

If you have any questions about “Upgrade,” making an ASFR movie---or what the hell I just said in aforementioned text---feel free to post here or email me. Take care…

RL

P.S. If you ever need a consultant for your idea/production/whatever, please feel free to drop me a line. As A675 & Keraptis can attest, I’m always good for at least one idea. ;)

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Re: Scripts

Post by Android675 » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:07 pm

So… between the time that I started writing this and finished writing this, Robolvr posted his response above, so I haven't read what he had to say yet. If anything I say in here contradicts him, that's why.

Well, Keraptis did indeed "nudge" me to visit this thread, as promised. In order to make this response a little shorter, I'll say I agree with his views on, well, just about everything.

To directly address the budget question, I don't recall all the exact figures, but here's my recollection:

Lighting Package: $300
Gaffer/DP: $300
Grip/Electric: $200
Audio Engineer & Package: $200
Prod. Coord/Casting Dir: $300
Actresses: $400 ($200 each)
Camera Rental: $200
Costumes: $250 ($125 each)
Food/Snacks: $50
BetaSP stock: $120
VHS Stock: $75

Plus $75 for a last-minute, day of the shoot, AC500 for the camera since our batteries died a bit more quickly than expected. I know I'm forgetting some things, but the total was around $2600.

This didn't include a fee for Stuckfast, who provided the crew and talent. Our deal is that his fee would come from a percentage of sales. It also doesn't include the cost of the numerous, lengthy long-distance conference calls between Keraptis, Robolvr and myself. Nor does it include any post-production costs, including all the offline and online editing (which would have been enormous), or the cost of the location, which was loaned to us by a friend.

Everyone went over and above, considering what they were getting paid. The casting director put in many days of work to get all the actresses for our casting session and then book the talent, and she was our coordinator for the day of the shoot as well. The DP showed up for the rehearsal day. The actresses put in nearly a full day of rehearsal before the shoot. We recorded the casting session and also the rehearsal day on cameras borrowed from friends that we didn't need to pay for.

Overall, the end product wasn't exactly what we had hoped for, but considering the limitations, we were happy with it. It was incredibly satisfying to see many of the things that we had imagined and written come to life. Still, it's frustrating to have so many ideas and be faced with the realities of what is possible on a low budget. Let's face it… this is a high-budget fantasy if you want to do it right.

As for the idea of writing scripts, well, I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from being as creative as they want to be with this fetish. But if the goal is to bring something to video, I agree with Keraptis… the problem isn't the lack of ideas, but the lack of ability to get the thing physically made. Perhaps the best approach for that is to determine what the ASFR community, as a whole, can offer. Do people have access to any women who would do something like this, or equipment to get it done? Does anyone have experience producing or directing? Would everyone, or anyone, be willing to contribute funds?

And as Andoroido brought up, very perceptively, there's the loss of anonymity that goes along with the collaborative effort of making a video. From the experience of doing Upgrade, I can tell everyone that it's impossible to keep people from finding out that you have the fetish when you're working on a video. Before Upgrade, the number of non-ASFR people who knew I was into this odd little fetish was zero. Now there are at least three people who know about it, and probably 10 more that have a pretty good idea but are nice enough not to mention it.

So, those are a few thoughts. Obviously, lots more to talk about.

Android

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Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:28 am

When I first thought about writing the message to start this thread I thought oh there will be some commment nothing much will really come from it. But WOW, thanks Robolvr, Keraptis, & Android675, for your information about Upgrade, its been an eye opener.

I dunno if anyone is actually starting to try out some scripts at least as a writing style I have thought about it as a style for a while now, though I have other things which are taking my time at the moment but its on the list of things to do.

But I hope that others are attempting it, at least to see what can be done... even just as a writing style, it would be something different to read.

Again thanks for the wonderful input on this topic.
Miss Silver Karakuri

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Post by WinterRose » Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:30 am

Wow... I'm surprised I missed this thread for as long as I have. All this sort of thing and what EHY mentioned doing audio-wise is JUST what I've been working on for the last year. E-Mailing authors of more popular ASFR and Mind Control fiction to get permission. Going on hunts for voice talent through the different ASFR message boards... I have had enough interest to keep me going in the making of the site.

In the Updates section I announced the debut of the Psycho Technoid Theater and Silver's already noticed downloads of the RobotDoll story she's hosting and serving up for all of us that I made. It would have been NICE to have other actors and actresses doing that. But hey. Silver's drafted now. So we'll definitely be getting her voice in later efforts. There are a few other feellers I have out there for voice talent as well. But it's all dependant on cooperation. And like our intrepid trio of film-makers, the biggest obstacle would be to find female voice talent to DO some of the lines that women speak in these stories.

Having seen the success of the Warp My Mind website concerning freely available fetish hypnosis inductions inspired me to keep on with it when the people and actors adopted a sort of wait and see attitude to see if I'd suck or not. Here's hoping that the initial audioplay will encourage interest! This is something ANYone with a computer and the interest could do. Well, and a microphone. And the more people involved, the more we can do!

-WinterRose
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