Thoughts on super-strength

[Cecilauthor]

It's been frustrating me lately. I read this robot novel from Tanith Lee; and of course the pleasure robots are as strong as any dozen men. They have liquid metal shapeshifting to put a T-1000 to shame, and can form any weapon imaginable out of their own bodies. Also, they can control other machines by thinking about it; yet they were built with no way to control them. Nothing. Then, they start slaughtering people, and.... their creators cover it up. I'm just scratching my head in befuddlement at the irresponsible lunacy of it all. From a very famous writer too! Beyond ridiculous.

Two other novels I've got feature illegal fembots; and of course they both have super strength. But super-strength is a key factor in unmasking their robotic nature, which leads to murder and disaster. Giving an illegal robot super-strength might seem like a good way for her to escape the law, but once she kills/injures a cop, then the authorities will only escalate their pursuit. Even if the fembot is illegal, their only hope of survival is to outwardly mimic human behavior and abilities as much as possible.

I wonder why these authors don't realize the absurdity of their premise after their own writing explores that absurdity.

It makes me wish for clever fiction that explores dramatic (and sexual) potential from logically constructed fembots with reasonable abilities fitting their purpose. It might still make sense to give them enhanced senses, cranial wi-fi, or phones, or lie-detection. But why super-strength?
Pet peeve of mine. I'm venting now.

[DukeNukem 2417]

---she gets enhanced speed and strength, augmented artificial senses and loads of other, CREDIBLE abilities, but no stretching or size-changing. (And before I forget to mention, Vicki is physically, mentally and virtually---or however you say it to mean programming-wise---a 22-year-old college student within The V.I.C.I. Diaries, so I'm not breaking our most important rule)

Does she need to be superhumanly strong and fast to be a 22 year old college student?

......that's like asking if Buffy Summers needed acrobatics, training on how to kill vampires and the support of a witch and the Watchers' Council to fit in at Sunnydale.

The V.I.C.I. Diaries isn't just about Vicki's college life; it's about her activities as an ALPA (Artificial Lifeform Protection Agency) operative and how she tries to balance the "mundane" aspects of her life with the ALPA stuff, just like Buffy had her abilities and a need to balance school life with the whole Slayer thing.

[xodar]

Two other novels I've got feature illegal fembots; and of course they both have super strength. But super-strength is a key factor in unmasking their robotic nature, which leads to murder and disaster. Giving an illegal robot super-strength might seem like a good way for her to escape the law, but once she kills/injures a cop, then the authorities will only escalate their pursuit. Even if the fembot is illegal, their only hope of survival is to outwardly mimic human behavior and abilities as much as possible.

It makes me wish for clever fiction that explores dramatic (and sexual) potential from logically constructed fembots with reasonable abilities fitting their purpose. It might still make sense to give them enhanced senses, cranial wi-fi, or phones, or lie-detection. But why super-strength?
Pet peeve of mine. I'm venting now.

There wouldn't be any reason for a sexbot to have super strength or shapeshifting ability. They're going to be designed for sex and perhaps housework; taking care of sick or disabled and elderly persons would be a special case. Of course, elements wanting to assassinate someone would possibly make one with exaggerated abilities, but that would be a special case.
Most men don't want a sex partner who's a champion body builder and martial arts expert -- a lot of good Gaddafi's blonde athlete squad did him when it all hit the fan, anyhow.

It would be comparatively simple to make an infrared robot detector since heat would virtually have to be generated in different places in their bodies than in real humans' even if it's distributed the same on the surface. Brainwave detectors might be sophisticated enough to tell. Once they are widespread and sophisticated, so will be detection equipment.

[Frostillicus]

I ain't sceered'a no femmie-bots!

[Stephaniebot]

I ain't sceered'a no femmie-bots!

What about ghosts, lol?

Who you gonna call...

[ministrations]

I think it's simply a utility/construction issue. If you're going to build humanlike robots to do tasks that do require superhuman strength, I think it likely that a robot maker would stick with that basic design rather than design, source, and build a chassis from completely different materials. In other words, I think it would be much cheaper from a scale standpoint to limit sexbot strength in software, rather than hardware.

The bigger problem, as I see it, is that mainstream fiction continues to pigeonhole gynoids as disposable monsters of the week. I think in the few neutral or positive examples of fembot characters (including many of the stories on this site), their superhuman strength is assumed but almost never comes into play.

[Cecilauthor]

I think it's simply a utility/construction issue. If you're going to build humanlike robots to do tasks that do require superhuman strength, I think it likely that a robot maker would stick with that basic design rather than design, source, and build a chassis from completely different materials.

There are many utility/construction examples were human shapes aren't helpful. If you want to move large amounts of dirt, a giant scoop shovel is much more efficient than hands. If you want to lift heavy crates to the top of a skyscraper, a giant crane can get the job done faster than a man trying to climb, or take stairs, even if he could lift the crate. If you want to tunnel through a mountain, a drill is more efficient than John Henry's hammer. Sorry Americana mythos.

But if you wanted a human-sized robot able to go anywhere that a human could, the legal liability would be nightmarish if that robot could slaughter people effortlessly while unarmed. For heavy, industrial tasks there are other shapes that work better, and tremendous, pointless risks in super-strong household companion robots. Lifting furniture could be very useful. Lifting the family station wagon?

Most machines malfunction or get buggy at some point. Do you want one that can rip your arm out of its socket when that happens?

[Cecilauthor]

I ain't sceered'a no femmie-bots!

What about ghosts, lol?

Who you gonna call...

Your signature is pretty sexy.

[ministrations]

But if you wanted a human-sized robot able to go anywhere that a human could, the legal liability would be nightmarish if that robot could slaughter people effortlessly while unarmed. For heavy, industrial tasks there are other shapes that work better, and tremendous, pointless risks in super-strong household companion robots.

I completely understand your point, but just think about all the appliances we use on a daily basis that could be lethal to us. We've been driving bombs on wheels for more than 100 years. We use chainsaws, microwave ovens ... hell, a few people die every year because their hot water tank malfunctions and boils them alive. There's nothing that makes me think we're suddenly going to get religion with building robots.

That said, I think that an FDA or NTSB-type process is going to come into place real quick once these things are actually on the market. Robot builders will have to prove reliability to minimum levels ... MTBF and all that.

Finally, just like driving at 30mph can still be fatal, "regular human strength" can still be incredibly fatal. And proof that speeding at 200mph is dozens of times more fatal than 30mph hasn't stopped people from building faster cars.

Like I said, I understand your point. But I think robots will generally be far stronger than humans in a real-world situation, simply because that's what companies will build (and what buyers will want).

[Cecilauthor]

Like I said, I understand your point. But I think robots will generally be far stronger than humans in a real-world situation, simply because that's what companies will build (and what buyers will want).

I suppose some people may want a super-strong household companion fembot. The idea has permeated our culture so much. You know what else they'll want? They'll want millions of dollars in damages when a fembot with a faulty pressure sensor makes Twizzlers out of their spinal column. Then, the companies will wise-up and do the safe thing, and create real limits to avoid liability.

[Stephaniebot]

I ain't sceered'a no femmie-bots!

What about ghosts, lol?

Who you gonna call...

Your signature is pretty sexy.

Thanks

[xodar]

I completely understand your point, but just think about all the appliances we use on a daily basis that could be lethal to us. We've been driving bombs on wheels for more than 100 years. We use chainsaws, microwave ovens ... hell, a few people die every year because their hot water tank malfunctions and boils them alive. There's nothing that makes me think we're suddenly going to get religion with building robots.

That said, I think that an FDA or NTSB-type process is going to come into place real quick once these things are actually on the market. Robot builders will have to prove reliability to minimum levels ... MTBF and all that.

Finally, just like driving at 30mph can still be fatal, "regular human strength" can still be incredibly fatal. And proof that speeding at 200mph is dozens of times more fatal than 30mph hasn't stopped people from building faster cars.

Like I said, I understand your point. But I think robots will generally be far stronger than humans in a real-world situation, simply because that's what companies will build (and what buyers will want).

Competition in household appliances has been for companies to build more efficient, better looking, and cheaper ones.
The same will hold for fembots -- better looking, more realistic, and more in behavioral accord with fantasies and stated wishes.
The real accidents with sexbots will be some glitch that makes one suddenly bite or clamp another orifice.

[Frostillicus]

I think I should be afraid of The Ghostbusters since I'm getting closer and closer to becoming a ghost myself. Anyway, I didn't mean to take the thread off topic. FEMBOTS ROCK! Cecil's right about robot built ONLY for sex being stupid strong is stupid. I'd want one (*dozen*) for more than sex, though, and have them strong enough to have all kinds of fun with but also with that wonderful off-switch/command/override/remote/fail-safe, etc, not to mention that if I have more than one than the others will protect me from one that might not be otherwise stopped. As long as we're fantasizing, why stop at one? Fembots for everyone!

[Cecilauthor]

I'd want one (*dozen*) for more than sex, though, and have them strong enough to have all kinds of fun with but also with that wonderful off-switch/command/override/remote/fail-safe, etc, not to mention that if I have more than one than the others will protect me from one that might not be otherwise stopped. As long as we're fantasizing, why stop at one? Fembots for everyone!

I think your dozen fembot lovers could have sex, cook dinner, clean the house in lingerie, and wash your car in bikinis without being strong enough to use your ribcage as a coat-hanger. With phones and internet in their brains, they'd still be very useful.

[Svengli]

As far as what stories should say, I think the answer is whatever turns you on.

Now, considering how fragile a Real Doll is currently, Fembots with super-strength seem far off. The safety factor would probably matter too.

On the other hand, with the singularity, either everyone or just those in charge, would be able to get anything they wanted. Hopefully, they'll wish wisely.

[Cecilauthor]

On the other hand, with the singularity, either everyone or just those in charge, would be able to get anything they wanted. Hopefully, they'll wish wisely.

It's just that I've read so many robot novels and various TV episodes; and personally wish for fresh ideas. The robot always has a character arc that allows them to transcend their programming, and because they were foolishly designed with the strength to go toe-to-toe with a bulldozer, they end up wreaking havoc, killing their creators, damaging the Starship Enterprise. And I just can't believe any serious, corporate manufacturer would build something so catastrophically dangerous, and then put it in people's homes.

And you guys have failed to convince me.

[Frostillicus]

Dude. It's a fetish. From an economic standpoint you have a point but even if a fembot can't lift a car she should still be able to get out and push. Regardless they are generally used as a metaphor (badly) and also nobody wants something that we can get from each other. We want to play with something that can do more. Besides yours are practically psychic. Privacy issues?

[xodar]

Dude. It's a fetish. From an economic standpoint you have a point but even if a fembot can't lift a car she should still be able to get out and push. Regardless they are generally used as a metaphor (badly) and also nobody wants something that we can get from each other. We want to play with something that can do more. Besides yours are practically psychic. Privacy issues?

If she gets out and pushes she could be seriously damaged. Not only would it damage her sex appeal but it would probably be expensive to fix.

As for super strength, try moving a chimp or gorilla into your house as a servant.

[Stephaniebot]

As a 'fembot' with knees in pretty awful condition, I'd like to have ordinary strength capability with them, let alone super strength!

[ministrations]

And I just can't believe any serious, corporate manufacturer would build something so catastrophically dangerous, and then put it in people's homes.

It happens every single day.

Again, androids would be able to do significant damage even if they were somewhat weaker than humans, if whatever regulates their muscle actuation malfunctions.

And while I don't think the average fembot would be able to dead lift tens of thousands of pounds, like some of the fictional ones you're referencing can, I do think she'll be stronger than the average 100-pound woman. Probably significantly so.

Consider that just like with a car or a blender, fembot manufacturers would have a great deal of legal protection against "user error." And in the case of an actual defect, there will be recalls and lawsuits, maybe eventually a class-action suit against Big Fembot that will get settled for a small fraction of the actual damages, to say nothing of these companies' revenues.

Finally, none of this applies outside the G7. Anyone who's ever bought an off-brand appliance in developing markets knows what I mean.

[Cecilauthor]

Besides yours are practically psychic. Privacy issues?

"All the better to know your every desire, master." And not turn your vertebra into jump-rope.

Dude. It's a fetish. From an economic standpoint you have a point but even if a fembot can't lift a car she should still be able to get out and push. Regardless they are generally used as a metaphor (badly) and also nobody wants something that we can get from each other. We want to play with something that can do more.

I guess a fetish makes sense. It doesn't have to be logical. But it will probably void the warranty and safety features. Then your fembot strong enough to sumo-wrestle a freight-train expands her programming with owner-pulping results. They'll probably need a disclaimer sticker.

[Cecilauthor]

It happens every single day.

Again, androids would be able to do significant damage even if they were somewhat weaker than humans, if whatever regulates their muscle actuation malfunctions.

And while I don't think the average fembot would be able to dead lift tens of thousands of pounds, like some of the fictional ones you're referencing can, I do think she'll be stronger than the average 100-pound woman. Probably significantly so.

There's a big difference between the strength of a 100 pound woman, and something strong enough to shot-put a Toyota Camry. A normal strength fembot might kill in theory, but can be stopped by police, and won't be capable of killer-robot rampages.

[Cecilauthor]

As a 'fembot' with knees in pretty awful condition, I'd like to have ordinary strength capability with them, let alone super strength!

Next, I'm going to hack Stephaniebot's brain.


I will make her talk dirty.

[dale coba]

Assuming I hack in, what's to stop me from killing you, using your fembot and a salad fork?
Mythbusters could prove me wrong, but how about a few sheets of well-folded paper?
She could origami-up a blade in seconds - scrickkk!
(that was your neck).

- Dale Coba
(Stepford: fewer kills, less mess than a town of vampire)

[Cecilauthor]

Assuming I hack in, what's to stop me from killing you, using your fembot and a salad fork?
Mythbusters could prove me wrong, but how about a few sheets of well-folded paper?
She could origami-up a blade in seconds - scrickkk!
(that was your neck).

See page 3 comment:

Hacking may always a be a possibility; and if you've foolishly bought a pleasure-bot that can arm-wrestle a polar bear and win, then your odds of survival just took a nosedive. A hacked robot of normal strength is no worse than the heroine in a country-western cheatin' heart song.

But I'll hack Stephaniebot, and make her fight off the evil fembot. Girl fight. Rowwwr.