Ethics of robot servitude article.
Ethics of robot servitude article.
APPARENTLY september is the month of robot ethics awareness so... i'll just leave this article... here.
http://stevepetersen.net/professional/p ... vitude.pdf
http://stevepetersen.net/professional/p ... vitude.pdf
- Stephaniebot
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Interesting article, thats for sure.
Do think there is a big difference between ERS and EHS in legitimacy though. Irony is, EHS is more feasible at the moment, and thats not the best thing?
Well unless it involves turning a human into a robot, and then...
Do think there is a big difference between ERS and EHS in legitimacy though. Irony is, EHS is more feasible at the moment, and thats not the best thing?
Well unless it involves turning a human into a robot, and then...
I'm just a 'girl' who wants to become a fembot whats wrong with that?
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
If we build them they will be machines.
Modified living matter is different, even artificially created living matter, but a machine is a machine.
Modified living matter is different, even artificially created living matter, but a machine is a machine.
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
I can see this kind of rhetoric being used to justify horrible atrocities in the futurexodar wrote:If we build them they will be machines.
Modified living matter is different, even artificially created living matter, but a machine is a machine.
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Horrible atrocities against machines are called "vandalism". They are the destruction of others' property.
Living creatures are one thing -- they can suffer even if they aren't conscious -- and machines are another. Machines are an artificial arrangement of junk made by living creatures.
Living creatures are one thing -- they can suffer even if they aren't conscious -- and machines are another. Machines are an artificial arrangement of junk made by living creatures.
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
And why can't machines possibly reach the state where they can feel fear, pain, and despair?
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
I don't know that they can't, but they won't unless somebody is idiot enough to make them so.Asato wrote:And why can't machines possibly reach the state where they can feel fear, pain, and despair?
It's okay for machines to be made to appear to have emotions and feelings, especially sexbots, but why would you want one to actually have them?
It would be a deliberate creation by humans.
Is anyone going to give them a version of DNA and the ability to reproduce and thus evolve? If you do they'll compete with humans for resources.
Do you want HAL to take over?
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Because I like the idea of a sapient robot with human emotions?
Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
i was expecting asato to disagree!, ha, how funny. some human emotions are not all...enjoyable. i understand it is your fantasy, that's good, if it ever happen i hope they just make a few of those machines or you would have a repetition of us and a robot civilization asking themselves, why can't i be forever happy?, be or not to be...and collective paranoia. combo breaker.
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
That's a possibility in that case.--Battery-- wrote:
i was expecting asato to disagree!, ha, how funny. some human emotions are not all...enjoyable. i understand it is your fantasy, that's good, if it ever happen i hope they just make a few of those machines or you would have a repetition of us and a robot civilization asking themselves, why can't i be forever happy?, be or not to be...and collective paranoia. combo breaker.
Robots are handy as machines but I don't grasp why the attempt should be made to make them sentient beings. They are tools.
I don't object, as I said, to their imitating the appearance of human emotions; it could be helpful and therapeutic in some cases.
There are plenty of sentient beings and it should be our responsibility to take care of them when we have to and leave them alone otherwise.
I am not averse to trying to make some of them more intelligent; people get along well with dogs and it appears to me that they are on the verge of a kind of self-awareness, probably because they've been unconsciously selected for it by people. Maybe parrots.
That's because we are responsible for the existence of whole subspecies of such creatures. They're now companions.
But robots are something else. Simply tools.
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
I just hope you wouldn't treat a sapient robot with human emotions as a tool
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
I don't understand why some people put words in others' mouths and imply that they are immoral. Is it a lack of manners or a calculated smear? A lack of seeing what's actually said? A habit picked up from standard media?Asato wrote:I just hope you wouldn't treat a sapient robot with human emotions as a tool
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
You know, Asato, I get that you have very strong feelings about your side of the issue. HOWEVER, it does seem like you're being VERY confrontational when people tell you that their preferences in their fantasies are different than yours. If you don't like it, then don't comment on it. Using words like "evil" and "immoral" is only going to get everybody's dander up. I enjoy coming to this board as I feel it's generally positive and judgment-free.
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
... some very approximate thoughts, based on years of watching this board...
Some people's fantasies would serve to solve a problem.
Other people's fantasies serve to avoid problems, to define a realm apart from them.
There's always a mismatch between the two, in urgency;
those who wish their specific problem could be solved with fembots
will tend to want us all to join and validate the world where they have triumphed.
This hypothetical principle may not even apply here;
but I don't have a negative judgement on anyone - these dissonances will occur in this community,
since we come at this fascination from so many very unique angles (Stepford much, Dale?).
- Dale Coba
Some people's fantasies would serve to solve a problem.
Other people's fantasies serve to avoid problems, to define a realm apart from them.
There's always a mismatch between the two, in urgency;
those who wish their specific problem could be solved with fembots
will tend to want us all to join and validate the world where they have triumphed.
This hypothetical principle may not even apply here;
but I don't have a negative judgement on anyone - these dissonances will occur in this community,
since we come at this fascination from so many very unique angles (Stepford much, Dale?).
- Dale Coba
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Sorry, geez
- The Egg
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
The ironic thing I find about all of this is that most of the people I'm familiar with in this fetish have significant (if largely personal) reasons for avoiding human emotions. Now we're arguing about not only giving them to robots but allowing them due rights based on that injection of human qualities. What's the point of a fembot if I now have to legally and ethically treat it like an actual woman? What's next, a movement for fembotism, spearheaded by Galaxina Steinem? "A fembot needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle!"
Something I think robotdoll said ages ago has always struck me as being the important crux of this debate: "We don't objectify females, we feminize objects." Machines are, as they stand today, tools. They are so because they are designed for specific purposes and any deviation from those purposes is to be considered an error and to be corrected. They did not evolve over millions of years to enjoy the complex and natural flow of emotions and consciousness that we do. Just because they look human and act human does not make them human. Assuming they would also have human morals and desires is even more biased and piecemeal an argument. Assuming we should treat them as such regardless to err on the side of caution, when we have never done so with any other type of machine, is quite frankly outright asinine.
I have always considered the machine to be a perfect Buddhist; it is action personified, becoming-doing, free of ego or will of its own, neither content nor displeased with its lot in existence. It simply is, existing a a sort of acceptable nihilism. This to me seems much closer to what a robotic existence would be like as opposed to a human existence.
Something I think robotdoll said ages ago has always struck me as being the important crux of this debate: "We don't objectify females, we feminize objects." Machines are, as they stand today, tools. They are so because they are designed for specific purposes and any deviation from those purposes is to be considered an error and to be corrected. They did not evolve over millions of years to enjoy the complex and natural flow of emotions and consciousness that we do. Just because they look human and act human does not make them human. Assuming they would also have human morals and desires is even more biased and piecemeal an argument. Assuming we should treat them as such regardless to err on the side of caution, when we have never done so with any other type of machine, is quite frankly outright asinine.
I have always considered the machine to be a perfect Buddhist; it is action personified, becoming-doing, free of ego or will of its own, neither content nor displeased with its lot in existence. It simply is, existing a a sort of acceptable nihilism. This to me seems much closer to what a robotic existence would be like as opposed to a human existence.
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Yes, assuming it could be done I don't see why such a sentient robot need be built. Maybe a simple creature to see if it could be done, but that's it.
This isn't so much a matter of morality to me as a total contradiction of the purpose of robots. They are tools intended to perform tasks too boring or dangerous or such for humans or animals to do. A fembot would be for men (and that doesn't mean there can't be male bots for females -- or males) who for whatever reason -- disability, lack of time or inclination for a relationship, need to practice or learn sex -- won't or can't have a relationship with a real female. A car is better than a horse for transportation not only because it is faster and stronger but because it's disposable and feels nothing. That's not an anti-horse statement.
Of course I'd want fembots to act like real females, up to a point, but there just isn't any reason to make them into sentient beings that would bring all the baggage a real person would into a relationship. Such a situation would essentially be slavery.
We'd have to package bots with disclaimers that they are simulations and not really conscious.....
That's what I was getting at. A purpose of machines it to avoid abusing genuine sentient beings.
This isn't so much a matter of morality to me as a total contradiction of the purpose of robots. They are tools intended to perform tasks too boring or dangerous or such for humans or animals to do. A fembot would be for men (and that doesn't mean there can't be male bots for females -- or males) who for whatever reason -- disability, lack of time or inclination for a relationship, need to practice or learn sex -- won't or can't have a relationship with a real female. A car is better than a horse for transportation not only because it is faster and stronger but because it's disposable and feels nothing. That's not an anti-horse statement.
Of course I'd want fembots to act like real females, up to a point, but there just isn't any reason to make them into sentient beings that would bring all the baggage a real person would into a relationship. Such a situation would essentially be slavery.
We'd have to package bots with disclaimers that they are simulations and not really conscious.....
That's what I was getting at. A purpose of machines it to avoid abusing genuine sentient beings.
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
But machines as genuine sapient beings is what I am interested in
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
AND THAT'S GOOD FOR YOU. But, as noted, you just won't let the topic drop; it's like you are trying to convert everyone over to your way of thinking.Asato wrote:But machines as genuine sapient beings is what I am interested in
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Because...?Asato wrote:But machines as genuine sapient beings is what I am interested in
(my sensibility is geared too differently for me to dare any guesses)
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that's the one way to guarantee a girlfriend who never busts out the "I have a headache" excuse.dale coba wrote:Because...?Asato wrote:But machines as genuine sapient beings is what I am interested in
(my sensibility is geared too differently for me to dare any guesses)
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Well, a great deal of popular media revolving around robots and cybernetic beings leans heavily towards the whole "does it have a soul" motif: Short Circuit, Robocop, The Electric Grandmother, the various Star Trek episodes cited elsewhere, etc. The problem is that these are human stories written for human audiences whose human emotions are necessarily hijacked and manipulated for the purpose of pushing popcorn and Chevrolet adverts. From a dramatic viewpoint, we can't relate to a robot that doesn't have human characteristics on some level, but in the real world robots don't have drama. They have instructions and responses.
I'm not saying it's a topic to be avoided or anything; plenty of great media has come out of these ideas. However, the other side of the coin, being rooted in both observational and statistical data, is also interesting, and not without its own share of human drama. How would ubiquitous humanoid robots affect human society? Would they be welcomed as able and ready helpers and administrators of tasks we'd rather not do, or would they be despised as "job stealers"? How would the economy adjust, and would families be put out of work? How would various religions accept or reject them? And so forth.
I'm not saying it's a topic to be avoided or anything; plenty of great media has come out of these ideas. However, the other side of the coin, being rooted in both observational and statistical data, is also interesting, and not without its own share of human drama. How would ubiquitous humanoid robots affect human society? Would they be welcomed as able and ready helpers and administrators of tasks we'd rather not do, or would they be despised as "job stealers"? How would the economy adjust, and would families be put out of work? How would various religions accept or reject them? And so forth.
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
That's a good approach. They would be disruptive in society and it would be our fault. Look at colonial societies where humans, somewhat different physically and widely differt culturally, are thrown together. Those are not happy countries even for the upper class of invaders.
If sentient machine could be built it would add to the total sum of unhappiness and suffering. If they are intelligent and aware of their situation they could learn to restructure their minds without our noticing it till it's too late. It would be a moral can of worms.
If robots remain tools, however well they can mimic the appearance of emotion they would diminish unhappiness in the world.
This is why I am unhappy being accused, even by implication, of being heartless and abusive.
Possibly robots should be required to have some glitch that would prove them robots. Freezing up and repeating an advertising slogan or nonsense words 1000 times in a row every week or so... Requiring some maintenance work every couple of weeks even if they could be constructed not to..
If sentient machine could be built it would add to the total sum of unhappiness and suffering. If they are intelligent and aware of their situation they could learn to restructure their minds without our noticing it till it's too late. It would be a moral can of worms.
If robots remain tools, however well they can mimic the appearance of emotion they would diminish unhappiness in the world.
This is why I am unhappy being accused, even by implication, of being heartless and abusive.
Possibly robots should be required to have some glitch that would prove them robots. Freezing up and repeating an advertising slogan or nonsense words 1000 times in a row every week or so... Requiring some maintenance work every couple of weeks even if they could be constructed not to..
"You can believe me, because I never lie and I'm always right." -- George Leroy Tirebiter.
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it I don't give a rat's ass.
http://www.bbotw.com/product.aspx?ISBN=0-7414-4384-8
http://www.bbotw.com/description.asp?ISBN=0-7414-2058-9
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Re: Ethics of robot servitude article.
Well it's more like I was against the people who didn't believe machines could ever be sapient or have emotions
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