Why are the japanese so creazy about (female)robots/android?

[T-elos/Thurosis]

Hi everybody,

i don't know if this was discussed before, but lately i got a bit curious
about this topic.
So i wanted to see/hear your opinion about it.

I'm a simple man, i don't know much about politics nor robotics.

But after reading some articles here, at google and wikipedia, i looks like to me that only the japanese are "serious" at the research of Androids. While other "leading" countries like Germany and USA fall asleep at this theme.

but at in the other hand i't contradicting, why are the japanese so addicted to the research of female robots while their Populations goes back?
Wouldn't the population of theirs (and maybe other countries) goes to zero after the completion of androids (after they going to massproduced)?

[gynoneko]

Well Japan is overpopulated. They have about 1/5th the population of USA, but 1/25th of the size. Who knows.
But they are world leaders in technology. They have the best robotics facilities in the world, and they are the ones that came up with anime in the first place. So... Japan is weird, yes, but we can all enjoy that!

[Rotwang]

Read any reaction to the news of another robot project. About 75% predict the end of the world, the coming of skynet etc ...

The dominant meme in the west is that robot are evil and will destroy us first chance they get. The Japanese see this is a broader perspective. The Japanese react fairly well to the androids, but a lot of people in the west tend to be freaked out.

[T-elos/Thurosis]

... they are the ones that came up with anime in the first place. So... Japan is weird, yes, but we can all enjoy that!

Sorry for this now ... Anime is the shortcut for Animation and Animations (moving pictures have already been there before the japanese started to draw) as far as i know it was Disney early time with Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck stuff.

The Japanese saw/watched that and made their own stuff. (like many other things.) Which is now the so called "Anime", which we define as "Animation/cartoons from Japan"

If a japanese say "Anime" they mean every kind of Animations, western stuff included.

And at the Time where "Bambi" came out from Walt Disney, the japanese started to give their characters "huge" eyes.

[gynoneko]

Yes, I know all about this. Disney influenced Japanese animation But by anime, i mean the japanese style of anime which is a word in the english language now. Japan came up with the themes, the robots and mehca, the magical girls and so on and so forth. No they didn't invent animation. But their style of anime is unique to them, and has spread throughout the world.

[darkbutflashy]

Rotwang is right. The generation of engineers currently developing humanoid robots in Japan are the ones which loved Astro Boy, Mazinger and others in their youth. No wonder some of them try to fulfill their childhood dreams. When it comes to the west, robots are a mere tool. I'd say even though it is fascinating to see a robot can walk without falling down and a robot having a *face* which shows mimics, as an engineer I'm more fascinated from the sensors, actuators and solutions of differential functions to let them play together this way. The whole humanoid stuff on top of all that engineering is very very superficial, and the engineers know that.

But in Japan, people seem to love it this way, the same way they love any other gadget which seem to have emotions. Think of the Tamagotchi. Maybe this is because Japanese common manners discourage people to show emotions to other people. From my own view (with some first-hand knowledge from within a Japanese engineer company) I'd say Japan is hell to people, but heaven to robots.

dark

[Keizo]

Part of it goes back to Shinto beliefs that everything had a spirit within it, from rocks to trees to rivers and tools. Even farmers respected the tools of their trade as much samurai cherished their swords. Tools were almost like partners in that regard.

I do agree with darkbutflashy in that their own repressed emotions are "allowed" to manifest through more "innocent" objects. Fembots can freely express, and OVERLY express, emotions that are craved by humans. The only part I DO NOT like is that much of the time this is represented by whiny crying fembots that look like 12 year olds. This may be leftover unfulfilled childhood fantasies because of modern perceptions and social classes but only in some cases.

The darker side of this is because of older and ingrained beliefs that to take that innocence from virgin youths gives someone more virility especially if one can make her cry without fighting back because that establishes dominance. It also allegedly gives the male some of that youth's life energy or restores his own youthful energy. This is why that very victim is shown as becoming attached to the "potent" statutory rapist as some sort of vindication. But it's fantasy, folks. They don't usually do that to girls, but fembots would be free game as is evidenced by the popularity and availability of child based sex dolls. I hate to say this about my own people.

Some repression is good. I just wish they would concentrate on fembots with more developed hips, lips and tits. Those are more fun.

[barakuda]

I read part of a article i think that was mentioned here on another thread. That the Japanese are are trying to make Robots to help take care of the aging population. And allthough the western media and entertainment industry does portray has Androids and A.I. has a thing to fear. There are many Japanese anime,shows,and games that do the same. Anybody here remember the game snatchers. From the creator of Metal Gear Series. A classic Japanese cyberpunk style game where the where human looking androids called Snatcher are replacing humans. If you have played you should find the rom and try it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snatcher

[fnord]

Keizo nice reply

I once heard on NPR (national public radio), the population of Japan is rapidly aging over all, and that the society itself is a lot more homogeneous than the west. I thought at that time what better way of trying to keep societies cultural norm and traditions than robots. Far better than importing labor which will only affect the national culture. Not to mention limited space and resources.

[T-elos/Thurosis]

I see, that's interessting, especially the part with the religious background.

But now i'm questioning myself, why are the western people afraid of robots?
Stuff like skynet, or "Robot will be mankinds doom" etc are just stupid.
Aren't Asimovs 3 laws of robotics the "perfect" definition for robots not to hurt anyone?

I don't know if i am naive or stupid, but why are so many people who are afraid of something new/unknown? Unknown or New doesn't mean that is bad.

hmmm... but now if i think about it a second time.

If it's comes to the time where robots/androids can do better arts than humans, then I will be maybe one of those who protest...
Even if i don't want to... but the thoughts of that a machine can subtitute work creativity is frightening....

[fnord]

Interesting religion and robots?

Disclaimer** check out what Anton LaVey has too say about robots
http://www.satanservice.org/theory/coscos2.txt


4. _Development and promotion of artificial human companions
(humanoids)_ -- ....

Among the myriad reasons LaVey sees that humankoid
companions will have to be established, is as a form
of birth control. "Unfortunately, many humans sole
contribution to the world -- if it can be considered
as such -- is the ability to produce another human
being." With artificial people, women can have all
the sex they want and never fear getting pregnant,
and men need never fear that a woman might have fibbed
about adequate birth control measures. "Consumerism
is necessary, but only when tempered by awareness of
population limitations on the planet. Population
is the biggest problem facing us now, whether we want
to recognize it or not. This rampant, unorganized,
money-hungry, destructive consumerism is derived
directly from the Judeo-Christian 'more-Christians-
equals-more-money' attitude."


5. _Development and promotion of total environments_ --
"With technology, synthetics, commercial interests
what they are today, anyone should have the opportunity
to live within a total environment of his or her choice,
with strictly enforced adherence to the visual and
behavioral illusions characteristic of that world.
Privately owned, operated and controlled environments
should be alternatives to the homogenized, polyglot
ones.... ...very soon, the freedom to insularize
oneself within a chosen social milieu will be
recognized as life-giving, therapeutic and beneficial
to a sense of personal well-being. An opportunity to
feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically-
pleasing, without contamination from those who would
pollute or detract from your carefully cultivated
and illusory world, will be hailed as a great
scientific breakthrough to increase vitality and
longevity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtqGTn7PCBw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu0TXl15 ... re=related

[Yosuke]

Now this going to be my assumption alone, but my guess on why Westerners are scared of robots, is due to the principles that most western countries were built upon, Christianity.

One main rule in Christianity is that no mere human shall play god and those who try can only cause evil. ... or something along those lines.

It is the same reason why some folks are against abortion, stem cell research (cloning), and so on.

Edit: Lol and the post right before mine is stating the same thing hahaha. I didn't even see it.

[darkbutflashy]

But now i'm questioning myself, why are the western people afraid of robots?

Are they? I can't see it, at least not here in Germany, a place which inhabitants are afraid of anything.

Stuff like skynet, or "Robot will be mankinds doom" etc are just stupid.
Aren't Asimovs 3 laws of robotics the "perfect" definition for robots not to hurt anyone?

Make a survey. Ask "are you afraid of robots killing everyone" and you'll get a blank stare in result. It's like you have asked if they are afraid of aliens invading earth. This is so out-of-this-world, no common-thinking person can be afraid of it.

If you had asked "are you afraid of robots at your workplace" you'd get different results thirty years before. Back then the people said they are *indeed* afraid of them, because they may be replaced by them, get fired and lose their income. But especially in Germany, that did not happen. It was because it happened before. Odd jobs were cancelled before the rise of the industrial robots. Robots replaced other machines, not people.

For oncoming humanoid robots, this gets interesting. In Japan, they plan to use them in nursing and day-care. I don't think they could fire even more nurses and replace them by machines in Germany. That has happened before, too. What would happen is that the remaining nurses are unburdened from tedious jobs and heavy lifting (and in result, we would get the nurses from erogames in reality instead of the heavy-weight champions they currently are ^.^)

I don't know if i am naive or stupid, but why are so many people who are afraid of something new/unknown? Unknown or New doesn't mean that is bad.

hmmm... but now if i think about it a second time.

If it's comes to the time where robots/androids can do better arts than humans, then I will be maybe one of those who protest...
Even if i don't want to... but the thoughts of that a machine can subtitute work creativity is frightening....

Yes. Sure. This is the essence of it.

dark

[Keizo]

Another aspect of the Judeo-Christian influence is "original sin." Basically we are not only flawed but UNWORTHY. There is a huge sense of shame that is pounded into our psyches at an early age. Even if we overcome this later, it sometimes still manifests in our sub-conscious. We therefore seek affirmations from other, and especially "desirable" humans because this is like a redemption of sorts. This can also result in a douche bag effect as well because people are constantly trying to impress other people and end up just being annoying. They aren't doing any of us any favors when they blast their music like mating calls.

That said, there is a conceived sense that there can be no fulfillment from a partner that is not able to independently and mutually recognize just how cool we are!!! A babe will overcome her own biases and opinions and find some guy irresistible. How many times have we seen the scenario where some dumbass doesn't appreciate having a fembot because she's programmed to love him and show interest in his interests without an opinion of her own. Where are her adorable quirks and annoying habits that we can't live without? Where's the challenge in that? With no challenge comes no affirmation. How are we NEEDED and therefore fulfulled? Shame in Western society is different from shame in Eastern society in that regard because in Eastern society one can prove oneself in other ways. Honor as opposed to success, merit as opposed to ass-kissing, etc. Not that it doesn't happen over there, we just seem to gravitate towards rhetoric. And like the belief in virility in Eastern society, it is so ingrained in our cultures that one doesn't even have to be religious to feel it's influence in the traditions and stories surrounding us. We may not even be aware of when we perpetuate them.

But it's shame and guilt none the less. Remember though, that in the end, we are all animals. And robots (and especially fembots to females) represent a direct challenge to our place in the proverbial pecking order and food chain. We operate with a pack mentality and one can't prove he's an alpha if the omega can get something that's just as sweet. Therefore the omega and his companion are shunned which leads to doubt. The alphas can still feel superior.

As for feeling threatened by the possibility of artificial creativity, I wouldn't worry too much. At first it will be a novelty and then it will be incorporated. Look at how fractals help with special effects. At any rate there has to be a market. There are far more creative people right now than the ones that get a contract. It's matters of taste. Besides, an artificial intelligence would only represent another option. A different kind of option or perception. One that would need an audience to relate to. I don't think their potential creativity can compete with our unpredictability and insanity, so relax

[Stephaniebot]

The interesting thing for those like me is that not only do the Japanese lead the way in robotics, they also seemingly lead the way in human 'enhancement', which though not making robots of us (aww), certainly develop things that increase human strength and adaptability, most notably that exoskeleton they came up with for human wearers to put on, and be able to do things (lifting mainly) beyond their normal talents.
Its not robotisation, its not really cybernetics as you can take it off when not needed, but at the same time...its a step to improving the human body!

They might be weird, but I love their work

[dale coba]

I mean this in the most positive way:

Is there any nation with more creative sexual perversity than Japan? Honestly, I think not.

Yet, my study of Asian art taught me that, compared to Greece, Rome, and other Western ancient cultures, any depiction of the nude form was absent through many centuries in the Far East.

Humans are humans; but we don't have exactly the same sex hormone exposures during development. Before too many centuries, we settled into geographically separate, distinctly different populations - Japan still is such, today. There are secrets in all our genes; additionally those genes are regulated by our environment. War trauma influences not only the generation alive in the war, but a mother's stress level damages her daughter's eggs (formed with the daughter in utero). War strange-ifies your population for several decades (also known as the Godzilla Effect ).

To those fuzzy observations, I will add this one. I could never live as the Japanese do. I have a fried nervous system, and being too near a vacuum cleaner or tv shakes me up a bit. Standing "near" high power lines shuts down my intestines (v.bad). Don't get me within line-of-sight of a mag-lev train! The Japanese, from what I can see, use more electricity-up-too-close than almost any nation. The population density is high, so there have been many people living their whole lives rather soaking in what I consider an un-natural environment.

Purely from my personal observations, reflecting on the effects on myself and others, I think the EMF-density, if you will, is a major force in creating such a range of "perversities". There's my vaguest of guesses, one large but under-appreciated reason behind the distinctive creativity that is characteristic of Japanese sexual culture.

I haven't a good explanation for the scheiss fetishists seemingly concentrated in Germany.
I'm not curious enough to want to look deeper into the f3c@| matter.

- Dale Coba
(no offense meant. all apologies for my ignorance(s).)

[Rotwang]

I see, that's interessting, especially the part with the religious background.

But now i'm questioning myself, why are the western people afraid of robots?
Stuff like skynet, or "Robot will be mankinds doom" etc are just stupid.
Aren't Asimovs 3 laws of robotics the "perfect" definition for robots not to hurt anyone?

I don't know if i am naive or stupid, but why are so many people who are afraid of something new/unknown? Unknown or New doesn't mean that is bad.

hmmm... but now if i think about it a second time.

If it's comes to the time where robots/androids can do better arts than humans, then I will be maybe one of those who protest...
Even if i don't want to... but the thoughts of that a machine can subtitute work creativity is frightening....

Asimov was Jewish and in the Jewish tradition, artificial creations (Golem) are a good thing because it brings one closer to God. That's why he got upset that nearly every SF story written at the time had crazy robots kidnapping innocent girls or threatening the hero.

It's so embedded in popular media, same with scientists. When is the last time you saw the scientific consensus get it right in a movie lately ? It's always down to the maverick lone individual to save the day.

Part of it comes from our own subconscious. Despite the veneer of civilisation, we are still tribal cavemen and it is in our nature to be wary of strangers or new situations. That's why there is so much competition between sports fans or why fans of Star Trek and Star Wars can be at each other's throats sometimes. We may accept one thing as part of our comfort zone, and almost be default we have an urge to detest anything else.

One of the best examples was a popular science magazine ran a competition years ago for people to come up with their own cyborg. Of hundreds of submissions only a handful were "beneficial" the majority were Terminator-style killing machines. So we are a product of the brainwashing effect of the mass media upon our perceptions of robots and machines.

[--NightBattery--]

this thread was awesome
and by the way i believe westerns fear robots because in the history of most western civilizations tend to revolutions and bloodshed against the authorities by stuff that started as little problems like taxes, bad rule
maybe western civilizations just fear the repetition of history with metalic and plastic peasants u_u

[Baron]

I have a lot of problems with this:

5. _Development and promotion of total environments_ --
"With technology, synthetics, commercial interests
what they are today, anyone should have the opportunity
to live within a total environment of his or her choice,
with strictly enforced adherence to the visual and
behavioral illusions characteristic of that world.
Privately owned, operated and controlled environments
should be alternatives to the homogenized, polyglot
ones.... ...very soon, the freedom to insularize
oneself within a chosen social milieu will be
recognized as life-giving, therapeutic and beneficial
to a sense of personal well-being. An opportunity to
feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically-
pleasing, without contamination from those who would
pollute or detract from your carefully cultivated
and illusory world, will be hailed as a great
scientific breakthrough to increase vitality and
longevity.


This is already happening, all over the world - with the INTERNET. Look at the explosive growth of YouTube, and the various "social-networking" sites. Twenty five years ago, people were bemoaning the fact that the avaerage Joe or Jane spent 4 hours of every day in front of the idiot-box {television}. Today, it's estimated that same Joe or Jane spends EIGHT hours minimum on the computer, work not included. I mean, you can't even buy a TELEPHONE that's not 'Net-friendly any more, for crying out loud!!! TV's, radios - they're already ''assimilated'' to varying degrees.

It's not too hard to understand that a lot of folks already look at the 'Net as a sort of virtual world that's way more attractive than the offline one. To a degree, it is - sites like this very one can be wonderful "escapes" from time to time, and there is a whole litany of other examples I could cite. The danger comes from spending too damn much time "escaping." We have one or two generations now of "obese" children - who are fat simply because the ONLY exercise they get is eight hours or more behind a goddamn computer keyboard!!! If anything, the Internet addiction can literally rob one's sense of discipline, moderation, self-control, you name it.

We've all heard about the teen suicides because of online harrassment; the countless broken marriages caused by Internet affairs; not to mention identity-theft - which was NEVER a problem when we all wrote checks, or paid cash for something, or bloody well did without!! Look at the explosive growth of the porn industry, thanks to the 'Net. Ordinary porn is no great shakes, but when children are being mercilessly exploited / abused / and even killed within the same "industry," utilizing the same INTERNET - where's the escapist fun in that, then? When our media choices were limited to print, film, and regular TV, we hardly had such problems as a matter of historical record. Today you can order up a new designer drug, have "virtual sex" with a nine-year-old - and more than likely the money you spend for both is funding either criminals, terrorists, or both. But, you can still do all this - and a hell of a lot more - in the comfort of your own home; it's all "virtual," right?

No, I don't see "virtuality" as a panacea for anything. It's a cop-out; the cowards way out, if you will. Big bad world's too nasty, so waaaaaaaa, gimme an escape 'cos I can't fix it. It's like alcohol or drugs - used with moderation there's no problem. But abuse it the way today's "brave new world" routinely does, and the vision becomes more akin to a book written long, long ago..............

By a chap named Dant`e.

{And I don't mean Joe, either.}

Breakthrough, my ass - Pandora's Box is more like it.

[--NightBattery--]

well the world has and is always going to be full of pussies, but there are also scholars, artists, and people worried about other people and enviroment and not everybody is a lardass trying to live in New york yet, i as well dont think virtual stuff is meaningful in the long run, a balance always must be sought, good you are worried, as long people worry about things like, who i am, why i am, where i came from and stuff we are not enagenated automatons, and i think internet is doing more good than bad yet, it puts in evidence wrongdoers, you can find different opinions, heard the silenced by the media, met people of other parts of the world and hear they are happy in china and mexico, so don't fret, shit has always being happening for the masses even if the individual is happy and viceversa.

http://espritnoir.files.wordpress.com/2 ... masses.jpg

[fnord]

The Luddites were a social movement of British textile artisans in the nineteenth century who protested — often by destroying mechanized looms — against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution, which they felt were leaving them without work and changing their way of life. It took its name from Ned Ludd.

The movement emerged in the harsh economic climate of the Napoleonic Wars and difficult working conditions in the new textile factories. The principal objection of the Luddites was to the introduction of new wide-framed automated looms that could be operated by cheap, relatively unskilled labour, resulting in the loss of jobs for many skilled textile workers. The movement began in 1811 and 1812, when mills and pieces of factory machinery were burned by handloom weavers, and for a short time was so strong that Luddites clashed in battles with the British Army. Measures taken by the British government to suppress the movement included a mass trial at York in 1812 that resulted in many executions and penal transportations.

The action of destroying new machines had a long tradition before the Luddites, especially within the textile industry. Many inventors of the 18th century were attacked by vested interests who were threatened by new and more efficient ways of making yarn and cloth. Samuel Crompton, for example, had to hide his new spinning mule in the roof of his house at Hall i' th' Wood in 1779 to prevent it being destroyed by the mob.

In modern usage, "Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to industrialisation, automation, computerisation or new technologies in general.[1]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 History
* 2 Criticism
* 3 In popular culture
* 4 See also
* 5 References
o 5.1 Notes
o 5.2 Bibliography
* 6 External links

[edit] History
The stocking frame

Luddites claimed to be led by one "King Ludd" (also known as "General Ludd" or "Captain Ludd") whose signature appears on a "workers' manifesto" of the time. King Ludd or Ned Ludd, was a fictitious character who the Luddites said they were led by to stop any of their actual leaders being executed or deported. When the Luddites started going to desperate lengths ,such as smashing up machines, the law changed to make machine smashing a capital offense.

Research by historian Kevin Binfield[2] is particularly useful in placing the Luddite movement in historical context — as organised action by stockingers had occurred at various times since 1675, and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.

The movement began in Nottingham in 1811 and spread rapidly throughout England in 1811 and 1812. Many wool and cotton mills were destroyed until the British government suppressed the movement. The Luddites met at night on the moors surrounding the industrial towns, practising drills and manoeuvres, and often enjoyed local support. The main areas of the disturbances were Nottinghamshire in November 1811, followed by the West Riding of Yorkshire in early 1812 and Lancashire from March 1813. Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton's Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks.[citation needed] Magistrates and food merchants were also objects of death threats and attacks by the anonymous King Ludd and his supporters. Some industrialists even had secret chambers constructed in their buildings, which may have been used as hiding places.[3]

"Machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime by the Frame Breaking Act[4] — legislation which was opposed by Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites — and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British troops fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.[5] Three Luddites, led by George Mellor, ambushed and assassinated a mill-owner (William Horsfall from Ottiwells Mill in Marsden) at Crosland Moor, Huddersfield, Mellor firing the shot to the groin which would, soon enough, prove fatal. Horsfall had remarked previously that he would "Ride up to his saddle in Luddite blood". The Luddites responsible were hanged in York, and shortly thereafter "Luddism" began to wane.
Frame breaking (1812)

However, the movement can also be seen as part of a rising tide of English working-class discontent in the early 19th century (see also, for example, the Pentridge or Pentrich Rising of 1817, which was a general uprising but led by an unemployed Nottingham stockinger and probable ex-Luddite, Jeremiah Brandreth.) An agricultural variant of Luddism, centring on the breaking of threshing machines, was crucial to the widespread Swing Riots of 1830 in southern and eastern England.

The legend of "Enoch".
Enoch was the name given to a large sledge hammer used in the destruction of mill machinery by Luddites. Two explanations for the name are given, one being that Enoch was the "Hammer of God", the other being that it was manufactured by one Enoch Taylor of Marsden who also made cropping frames. (An early machine that removed the knap from woollen cloth.) Hence it was said that "Enoch med 'em an' Enoch shall brek 'em." referring to the frames. Several local textile museums have large sledge hammers amongst their exhibits purporting to be "Enoch". However none of these claims are verifiable.

Since the use of the term became common among Hippies in the late 1960s the terms Luddism and Luddite (or neo-Luddism and neo-Luddite) have become synonymous with anyone who opposes the advance of technology due to the cultural and socioeconomic changes that are associated with it.

Many of the ideas that were encompassed within the Luddite Movement have been studied and evaluated in modern economics literature. The concept of "Skill Biased Technological Change" (SBTC) posits that technology contributes to the de-skilling of routine, manual tasks.[6]
[edit] Criticism

The term "Luddite fallacy" has become a concept in neoclassical economics reflecting the belief that labour-saving technologies (i.e., technologies that increase output-per-worker) increase unemployment by reducing demand for labour. Neoclassical economists believe this argument is fallacious because they assert that instead of seeking to keep production constant by employing a smaller and more productive workforce, employers increase production while keeping workforce size constant.[7]

In his work on English history, The Making of the English Working Class, E. P. Thompson presented an alternative view of Luddite history. He argues that Luddites were not opposed to new technology in itself, but rather to the abolition of set prices and therefore also to the introduction of the free market.

Thompson argues that it was the newly-introduced economic system against which the Luddites were protesting. Thompson cites the many historical accounts of Luddite raids on workshops where some frames were smashed whilst others (whose owners were obeying the old economic practice and not trying to cut prices) were left untouched. This would clearly distinguish the Luddites from someone who was today called a luddite; whereas today a luddite would reject new technology because it is new, the Luddites were acting from a sense of self-preservation rather than merely fear of change.
[edit] In popular culture

* Shirley by Charlotte Brontë, is a social novel set against the backdrop of the Luddite riots in the Yorkshire textile industry in 1811—1812.
* The Difference Engine by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, is a novel speculating on what might have been, had Charles Babbage completed his Difference Engine during the Industrial Revolution.
* "The Triumph of General Ludd" — Roy Palmer in "Touch on the Times: Songs of Social Change 1770 to 1914" (ISBN 0-14-081182-6) says that this is a ballad that has been preserved in manuscript in the Home Office papers. Palmer sets it to the tune "Poor Jack", written by Charles Dibden. It was recorded by Chumbawamba on their album English Rebel Songs 1381—1984.

[edit] See also

* Antimodernism
* Critique of technology
* Jacquard loom
* Neo-Luddism
* Peterloo
* Propaganda of the deed



* Sabotage
* Swing Riots
* Technophobia
* Technorealism
* Techno-utopianism
* NIMBY

[edit] References
[edit] Notes

1. ^ "Luddite" Compact Oxford English Dictionary at AskOxford.com. Accessed February 22, 2010.
2. ^ "Luddites and Luddism" extract from Binfield, Kevin ed., Writings of the Luddites Baltimore, Maryland: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2004. Accessed 4 June 2008.
3. ^ "Workmen discover secret chambers". BBC News. 2006-08-15. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leic ... 791069.stm. Retrieved 2010-05-11.
4. ^ "Frame Breaking Act" at everything2.com
5. ^ Hobsbawm, Eric (1964) "The Machine Breakers" in Labouring Men. Studies in the History of Labour., London, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, page 6. Hobsbawm has popularized this comparison and refers to the original statement in Darvall, Frank Ongley (1969) Popular Disturbances and Public Order in Regency England, London, Oxford University Press, page 260.
6. ^ Autor, Frank; Levy, David and Murnane, Richard J. "The Skill Content of Recent Technological Change: An Empirical Exploration" Quarterly Journal of Economics (2003)
7. ^ Easterly, William (2001). The Elusive Quest for Growth: Economists' Adventures and Misadventures in the Tropics. Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press. pp. 53—54. ISBN 0-262-55042-3.

[edit] Bibliography

* Bailey, Brian J., The Luddite Rebellion (1998), New York : New York University Press, ISBN 0-8147-1335-1.
* Binfield, Kevin. Writings of the Luddites, (2004), Johns Hopkins University Press, ISBN 0-8018-7612-5
* Fox, Nicols. Against the Machine: The Hidden Luddite History in Literature, Art, and Individual Lives, (2003), Island Press ISBN 1-55963-860-5
* Hunt, Lynn, Thomas R. Martin, Barbara H. Rosenwein, R. Po-chia Hsia, and Bonnie G. Smith. The Making of the West. 3rd ed. Edited by Mary Dougherty. Vol. C of Since 1740. Boston: Bedford/St. Martin's, 2009.
* Jones, Steven E. Against Technology: From Luddites to Neo-Luddism, (2006) Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-97868-2
* Perlman, Fredy. Against His-tory, Against Leviathan, (1983) Black and Red, ISBN 0-934868-25-5
* Sale, Kirkpatrick. Rebels Against the Future: The Luddites and Their War on the Industrial Revolution, (1996) ISBN 0-201-40718-3
* Watson,David. Against the Megamachine: Essays on Empire and its Enemies, (1998) Autonomedia, ISBN 1-57027-087-2 .

[edit] External links[/code]

[fnord]

Neo-Luddism is a personal world view opposing modern technology.[1] Its name is based on the historical legacy of the British Luddites which were active between 1811 and 1816.[1] Neo-luddism includes the critical examination of the effects technology has on individuals and communities.[2]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Views
* 2 See also
* 3 References
* 4 Further reading
* 5 External links

[edit] Views

Opposition to the adoption of technology and challenges to the notion of supposed technological progress are sentiments that are echoed across history. In Gulliver's Travels (1726) Jonathan Swift ridiculed the Royal Society, the oldest scientific society in Britain, and both Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson extolled the virtue of unaltered nature.[2]

Neo-luddism conjures pre-technological life as the best post-technological prospect (see also primitivism), or as Robin and Webster put it, "a return to nature and what are imagined as more natural communities".[3] Industrial Society and Its Future (1995) is a recent expression of neo-luddism by Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber.[4] The manifesto states:

"The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in 'advanced' countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilled, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world."[4]

Neo-luddism may also be expressed as doubts as to whether new computer and internet based technology really brings benefits, or the belief that we were better off before its advent.[4] Neo-luddism is the opposite of technophilia, the belief that technological innovation will remedy all ills. Neo-luddism challenges the assumption that all that went before technology is redundant and to be disregarded because of its inferiority.[4] While neo-luddism is a fringe movement, some of its ideas, critiques and solutions have broad resonance in contemporary culture; for example, quests for a "simple" way of life.[3]

Neo-luddism may express itself in stark predictions about the effect of new technologies. John Philip Sousa for example regarded the introduction of the phonograph with suspicion,[4] predicting:

"a marked deterioration in American music and musical taste, an interruption in the musical development of the country, and a host of other injuries to music in its artistic manifestation, by virtue - or rather by vice, - of the multiplication of the various music-producing machines."[4]

[edit] See also

* Anarcho-primitivism
* CLODO
* Deep ecology
* Monkeywrenching
* Primitivism
* Transhumanism

[edit] References

1. ^ a b Jones, Steve E. (2006). Against technology: from the Luddites to neo-Luddism. CRC Press. pp. 20. ISBN 9780415978682. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YwPP ... navlinks_s.
2. ^ a b Christensen, Karen; David Levinson (2003). Encyclopedia of community: from the village to the virtual worls, Volume 3. SAGE. pp. 886. ISBN 9780761925989. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t1ge ... navlinks_s.
3. ^ a b Bell, David (2005). Science, technology and culture. McGraw-Hill International. pp. 55. ISBN 9780335213269. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pEcq ... navlinks_s.
4. ^ a b c d e f Graham, Gordon (1999). The Internet: a philosophical inquiry. Routledge. pp. 7. ISBN 9780415197496. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NDr8 ... navlinks_s.

[edit] Further reading

* Sale, Kirkpatrick (1996) Rebels Against The Future: The Luddites And Their War On The Industrial Revolution: Lessons For The Computer Age Basic Books, ISBN 978-0201407181
* Postman, Neil (1992) Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology Knopf, New York, ISBN 0-394-58272-1
* Quigley, Peter (1998) Coyote in the Maze: Tracking Edward Abbey in a World of Words University of Utah Press, Salt Lake City, ISBN 0-87480-563-5
* Roszak, Theodore (1994) The Cult of Information: A Neo-Luddite Treatise on High-Tech, Artificial Intelligence, and the True Art of Thinking (2nd ed.) University of California Press, Berkeley, California, ISBN 0-520-08584-1
* Tenner, Edward (1996) Why Things Bite Back: Technology and the Revenge of Unintended Consequences Knopf, New York, ISBN 0-679-42563-2

[edit] External links

* What is a Neo-Luddite?
* Insurgent Desire (collection of neo-Luddite/Green Anarchist essays)
* Primitivism writings archive
* Luddism and the Neo-Luddite Reaction by Martin Ryder, University of Colorado at Denver School of Education
* Industrial Society and Its Future (The Unabomber's Manifesto)

[--NightBattery--]

i can use that information eventually.

The Luddites were a social movement of British textile artisans in the nineteenth century who protested — often by destroying mechanized looms — against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution, which they felt were leaving them without work and changing their way of life. It took its name from Ned Ludd.

The movement emerged in the harsh economic climate of the Napoleonic Wars and difficult working conditions in the new textile factories. The principal objection of the Luddites was to the introduction of new wide-framed automated looms that could be operated by cheap, relatively unskilled labour, resulting in the loss of jobs for many skilled textile workers. The movement began in 1811 and 1812, when mills and pieces of factory machinery were burned by handloom weavers, and for a short time was so strong that Luddites clashed in battles with the British Army. Measures taken by the British government to suppress the movement included a mass trial at York in 1812 that resulted in many executions and penal transportations.

The action of destroying new machines had a long tradition before the Luddites, especially within the textile industry. Many inventors of the 18th century were attacked by vested interests who were threatened by new and more efficient ways of making yarn and cloth. Samuel Crompton, for example, had to hide his new spinning mule in the roof of his house at Hall i' th' Wood in 1779 to prevent it being destroyed by the mob.

In modern usage, "Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to industrialisation, automation, computerisation or new technologies in general.[1]
Contents
[hide]

* 1 History
* 2 Criticism
* 3 In popular culture
* 4 See also
* 5 References
o 5.1 Notes
o 5.2 Bibliography
* 6 External links

[edit] History
The stocking frame

Luddites claimed to be led by one "King Ludd" (also known as "General Ludd" or "Captain Ludd") whose signature appears on a "workers' manifesto" of the time. King Ludd or Ned Ludd, was a fictitious character who the Luddites said they were led by to stop any of their actual leaders being executed or deported. When the Luddites started going to desperate lengths ,such as smashing up machines, the law changed to make machine smashing a capital offense.

Research by historian Kevin Binfield[2] is particularly useful in placing the Luddite movement in historical context — as organised action by stockingers had occurred at various times since 1675, and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.

The movement began in Nottingham in 1811 and spread rapidly throughout England in 1811 and 1812. Many wool and cotton mills were destroyed until the British government suppressed the movement. The Luddites met at night on the moors surrounding the industrial towns, practising drills and manoeuvres, and often enjoyed local support. The main areas of the disturbances were Nottinghamshire in November 1811, followed by the West Riding of Yorkshire in early 1812 and Lancashire from March 1813. Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton's Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks.[citation needed] Magistrates and food merchants were also objects of death threats and attacks by the anonymous King Ludd and his supporters. Some industrialists even had secret chambers constructed in their buildings, which may have been used as hiding places.[3]

"Machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime by the Frame Breaking Act[4] — legislation which was opposed by Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites — and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British troops fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.[5] Three Luddites, led by George Mellor, ambushed and assassinated a mill-owner (William Horsfall from Ottiwells Mill in Marsden) at Crosland Moor, Huddersfield, Mellor firing the shot to the groin which would, soon enough, prove fatal. Horsfall had remarked previously that he would "Ride up to his saddle in Luddite blood". The Luddites responsible were hanged in York, and shortly thereafter "Luddism" began to wane.
Frame breaking (1812)

However, the movement can also be seen as part of a rising tide of English working-class discontent in the early 19th century (see also, for example, the Pentridge or Pentrich Rising of 1817, which was a general uprising but led by an unemployed Nottingham stockinger and probable ex-Luddite, Jeremiah Brandreth.) An agricultural variant of Luddism, centring on the breaking of threshing machines, was crucial to the widespread Swing Riots of 1830 in southern and eastern England.

The legend of "Enoch".
Enoch was the name given to a large sledge hammer used in the destruction of mill machinery by Luddites. Two explanations for the name are given, one being that Enoch was the "Hammer of God", the other being that it was manufactured by one Enoch Taylor of Marsden who also made cropping frames. (An early machine that removed the knap from woollen cloth.) Hence it was said that "Enoch med 'em an' Enoch shall brek 'em." referring to the frames. Several local textile museums have large sledge hammers amongst their exhibits purporting to be "Enoch". However none of these claims are verifiable.

Since the use of the term became common among Hippies in the late 1960s the terms Luddism and Luddite (or neo-Luddism and neo-Luddite) have become synonymous with anyone who opposes the advance of technology due to the cultural and socioeconomic changes that are associated with it.

Many of the ideas that were encompassed within the Luddite Movement have been studied and evaluated in modern economics literature. The concept of "Skill Biased Technological Change" (SBTC) posits that technology contributes to the de-skilling of routine, manual tasks.[6]
[edit] Criticism

The term "Luddite fallacy" has become a concept in neoclassical economics reflecting the belief that labour-saving technologies (i.e., technologies that increase output-per-worker) increase unemployment by reducing demand for labour. Neoclassical economists believe this argument is fallacious because they assert that instead of seeking to keep production constant by employing a smaller and more productive workforce, employers increase production while keeping workforce size constant.[7]

In his work on English history, The Making of the English Working Class, E. P. Thompson presented an alternative view of Luddite history. He argues that Luddites were not opposed to new technology in itself, but rather to the abolition of set prices and therefore also to the introduction of the free market.

Thompson argues that it was the newly-introduced economic system against which the Luddites were protesting. Thompson cites the many historical accounts of Luddite raids on workshops where some frames were smashed whilst others (whose owners were obeying the old economic practice and not trying to cut prices) were left untouched. This would clearly distinguish the Luddites from someone who was today called a luddite; whereas today a luddite would reject new technology because it is new, the Luddites were acting from a sense of self-preservation rather than merely fear of change.
[edit] In popular culture

* Shirley by Charlotte Brontë, is a social novel set against the backdrop of the Luddite riots in the Yorkshire textile industry in 1811—1812.
* The Difference Engine by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, is a novel speculating on what might have been, had Charles Babbage completed his Difference Engine during the Industrial Revolution.
* "The Triumph of General Ludd" — Roy Palmer in "Touch on the Times: Songs of Social Change 1770 to 1914" (ISBN 0-14-081182-6) says that this is a ballad that has been preserved in manuscript in the Home Office papers. Palmer sets it to the tune "Poor Jack", written by Charles Dibden. It was recorded by Chumbawamba on their album English Rebel Songs 1381—1984.

[edit] See also

* Antimodernism
* Critique of technology
* Jacquard loom
* Neo-Luddism
* Peterloo
* Propaganda of the deed



* Sabotage
* Swing Riots
* Technophobia
* Technorealism
* Techno-utopianism
* NIMBY

[edit] References
[edit] Notes

1. ^ "Luddite" Compact Oxford English Dictionary at AskOxford.com. Accessed February 22, 2010.
2. ^ "Luddites and Luddism" extract from Binfield, Kevin ed., Writings of the Luddites Baltimore, Maryland: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2004. Accessed 4 June 2008.
3. ^ "Workmen discover secret chambers". BBC News. 2006-08-15. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leic ... 791069.stm. Retrieved 2010-05-11.
4. ^ "Frame Breaking Act" at everything2.com
5. ^ Hobsbawm, Eric (1964) "The Machine Breakers" in Labouring Men. Studies in the History of Labour., London, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, page 6. Hobsbawm has popularized this comparison and refers to the original statement in Darvall, Frank Ongley (1969) Popular Disturbances and Public Order in Regency England, London, Oxford University Press, page 260.
6. ^ Autor, Frank; Levy, David and Murnane, Richard J. "The Skill Content of Recent Technological Change: An Empirical Exploration" Quarterly Journal of Economics (2003)
7. ^ Easterly, William (2001). The Elusive Quest for Growth: Economists' Adventures and Misadventures in the Tropics. Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press. pp. 53—54. ISBN 0-262-55042-3.

[edit] Bibliography

* Bailey, Brian J., The Luddite Rebellion (1998), New York : New York University Press, ISBN 0-8147-1335-1.
* Binfield, Kevin. Writings of the Luddites, (2004), Johns Hopkins University Press, ISBN 0-8018-7612-5
* Fox, Nicols. Against the Machine: The Hidden Luddite History in Literature, Art, and Individual Lives, (2003), Island Press ISBN 1-55963-860-5
* Hunt, Lynn, Thomas R. Martin, Barbara H. Rosenwein, R. Po-chia Hsia, and Bonnie G. Smith. The Making of the West. 3rd ed. Edited by Mary Dougherty. Vol. C of Since 1740. Boston: Bedford/St. Martin's, 2009.
* Jones, Steven E. Against Technology: From Luddites to Neo-Luddism, (2006) Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-97868-2
* Perlman, Fredy. Against His-tory, Against Leviathan, (1983) Black and Red, ISBN 0-934868-25-5
* Sale, Kirkpatrick. Rebels Against the Future: The Luddites and Their War on the Industrial Revolution, (1996) ISBN 0-201-40718-3
* Watson,David. Against the Megamachine: Essays on Empire and its Enemies, (1998) Autonomedia, ISBN 1-57027-087-2 .

[edit] External links[/code]

[Baron]

Well, my remarks were aimed at dependence and lack of self-discipline, rather than just technology-bashing. But since Luddism has been mentioned, consider the following:

We've taken care of everything
The words you read, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

Look around at this world we've made
Equality our stock in trade
Come and join the Brotherhood of Man
Oh, what a nice, contented world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

Moral: if you don't exercise self-discipline now, you might not even be able to in the future - as a prisoner in a "virtual" world. Think about these lyrics the next time you log into MyFace, YouTwit.

[KingJeremy]

So Baron,

A Rush reference and what I believe is a Cult reference in your tagline. I think you and I might have pretty similar music collections.