Scripts

Share your fembot fiction and fantasies here or discuss the craft of writing by asking for or giving suggestions.
Post Reply
User avatar
keraptis
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 5:02 am
Technosexuality: Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Location: Northeast U.S.
Contact:

Post by keraptis » Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:55 pm

This thread has raised some very interesting issues / questions. Let me try to give you all my perspective on them, with the following three disclaimers:
1. I don't speak for Android675 and Robolvr, though the three of us know each other pretty well, we have several shared experiences working on ASFR rojects, and we usually see things from a reasonably consistent point of view.
2. This topic raises, for me at least, some significant frustrations I've felt around the projects we've done, and some of that frustration is bound to show through.
3. If this post feels like a rant in places, it's meant to be thought-provoking but NOT antagonistic or inflammatory. I'm not attacking anyone ... but I hope that by being completely honest I can get a few useful ideas across.

The first question was about how long "Upgrade" is. It's 25 minutes long, though we also did a 60-minute outtakes video. I get the distinct impression that some on this thread are completely unfamiliar with the film, so I suggest you check out http://www.geocities.com/GuyTalon/upgrade.htm for more info. For some reason (extremely poor site design), there is no link to the order page ... you have to visit http://www.stuckfastprod.com/Captured-Moments/order.htm instead.

The second question was about exactly where the $2600 went. Android675 can answer this far better than I can -- he was the director and was responsible for the budget and running the project. I can say, though, that $2600 is EXTREMELY cheap for this project. We were lucky in that Android675 had access to much of the equipment necessary to do the project, particularly post-production and media duplication work. The cameras, lighting, etc. had to be paid for, and of course we had to hire the crew and actresses. We had to buy costumes, of course, as well as blank tapes and DVDs. But we cut corners wherever possible -- we had only one day of rehearsal and one day of shooting, and we even filmed it in a friend's apartment. Everything was done in the most frugal way possible, believe me.

Just as important as the $2600 is the huge amount of time we invested in the project. The three of us spent many long nights writing and refining the script ... and then Android675 did all the rest. I'm talking about conducting auditions, negotiating with the distributor (who of course took his cut of all proceeds), hiring the actresses and crew, running rehearsals, and doing the actual shoot. And then there was post-production, where he edited the whole thing together into the final cut of the film. He also hand-duplicated all of the tapes and DVDs. I'm estimating he spent a couple hundred hours in all. It was a truly amazing effort.

So while finances are important (without money you can't even get started), cash is not the only cost here. There's a tremendous investment of work that should not be underestimated. And there's also an emotional investment that goes into any creative project. Even if you are doing something that doesn't cost any cash -- such as this intriguing idea of doing a pure computer-generated animated short -- you shouldn't discount the very real time-and-effort costs of your project. So my advice for anyone doing any sort of work -- a story, a script, a photo-manip, a drawing, a comic, or especially an expensive project like a photo shoot or film -- is this: if the personal satisfaction you'll gain from the work itself is not enough motivation for you, you should not do it. You certainly won't make money, and you'll inevitably be disappointed in the amount of feedback, inspiration, and encouragement you'll receive from your intended audience. You may get a handful of people to give you their comments, and hopefully praise ... and if you're really lucky you may find one or two who will collaborate with you on your work. But experience has proven how difficult it is to create any real lasting momentum among the larger group.

This was our experience with "Upgrade," which got a nice buzz of interest early on but failed to generate much discussion. We certainly didn't feel like anyone at all was begging us to do a sequel. I think very few people in the community realized how much effort had gone into it or how lucky we were to have anything this ambitious produced from within the group. But I don't think "Upgrade" is at all unique in this regard. The discussion forum and its predecessor have seen MANY threads in which creators -- whether writing stories, creating artwork, etc. -- have begged and pleaded for feedback and publicly lamented how little support and encouragement they receive. We all KNOW that this community is much larger than the number of registered users of this board ... we KNOW that the things we create reach an audience of at least a few hundred, maybe even a thousand in some cases ... but the silence that greets new material can be deafening and disheartening.

And I'm talking about FREE stuff here, folks. Forget about getting people to actually PAY for anything. The past couple of years have seen several flare-ups around pay content. The predictable pattern goes something like this:
1. Person starts with a dream of creating a site full of ASFR content. They MAY be looking to treat it like a business and make money, but 99% of the time they are simply trying to cover the cost of hosting the site, etc.
2. Person gets a critical mass of content, puts the site up, and signs up a few members.
3. Person realizes they are having an extremely hard time getting enough members to fund the site. Morale drops off precipitously. Along with morale, frequency of updates drops too.
4. Those loyal few who are actually paying grow increasingly angry as they get less and less for their money.
5. Bitter acrimony ensues ... rifts form in what is usually a cohesive community ... the site usually goes away.

The other predictable pattern goes something like this:
1. Group creates a site with the express purpose of making money by delivering ASFR-ish content.
2. Group realizes that the only way to attract a large enough audience to be profitable is to diversify beyond just ASFR to broader sci-fi / hypno / fetish themes.
3. Over time group skews content more and more toward graphic sex, bondage, humiliation, etc. ... because, apparently, that's where the money is.
4. After a while the appeal of the site from a pure ASFR standpoint starts to become pretty unclear.

(No offense intended in either of the above assessments ... to each their own ... just one observer's view of things.)

In my humble opinion, anyone who's been paying attention to ASFR (as I have been since 1997 or so) knows that over time, there has been less and less new material of any kind being produced. I think this community could do a much better job of encouraging those who are creating, or trying to create, quality material. Part of the problem is that the Internet is an anonymous medium and there are many people consuming content anonymously without ever giving back, even if it's just a word of praise. Part of the problem is the amazing speed with which we consume new content. Even a blockbuster film that "everyone" goes to see holds onto "water cooler" status for a month AT MOST. A typical post of new ASFR material is fortunate to hold people's attention for longer than five days. I'm serious ... watch closely and you'll see. Even if money is not your goal (as it never was with us), there's very little payoff for something that may have taken weeks, even months, to produce.

So, before I sound bitter (I'm not) ... let me say a few positive things. I am extremely encouraged that anyone is even talking about an ambitious project like a film. If anything we may have learned making "Upgrade" is of use to you, we'd be glad to help. And for the record I'll be first in line to offer my financial support -- i.e., I will buy a copy -- so long as I believe it's quality content and not thinly-veiled hardcore porn.

I think you should be careful, though, before you spend lots of energy on scripts and such if you don't have the means, in the end, to produce the film. If you want control over the project you need someone who'll produce it for you on your terms ... either someone in the group who's willing to donate their time and equipment (good luck!!!) or someone you need to hire. I don't know anything about the grant money you mentioned -- it's a very interesting angle -- but I am skeptical that going that route will get you the project you really want. I would imagine that the people funding your project will require you to attempt to appeal to the largest possible audience. For example, they may fund a documentary-style project that explores ASFR concepts for the uninitiated, but that won't be particularly novel to the people in this group. They would be unlikely to fund a project that is so well targeted to this group that most people simply won't "get it." (See recent posts expressing skepticism over the likely ASFR appeal of the "Westworld" remake for corroborating evidence.)

In the end, anyone who can get a project, however humble, off the ground has my enthusiastic support, and I'll be first in line to cheer them on (and pay for the privilege to get my own copy of the work). And if anyone knows a better way than we did to get "$50 here $100 there" to fund something truly special ... then hey, more power to you!

I sincerely hope that such a project will happen and that we'll all support it in all the ways required to spark additional, increasingly ambitious, projects. Best of luck to you!

User avatar
DollSpace
Moderator
Posts: 2083
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:27 pm
Technosexuality: Built
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Charging Terminal #42
x 96
x 28
Contact:

Interesting...

Post by DollSpace » Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:09 pm

Cool idea...I think many of the stories floating around in our community would make great movies..in the budget arena, I would nominate my story "Clockwork Summer" for people to take a look at, only because the special effects would be limited to a wind-up scene and would rely mostly on acting...(or you could switch the time period to now or the future and make her a true (but limited) android, still relying mostly on acting and maybe a charging scene?)....but drawbacks would be her age (she'd be 17 or 18 or so)..the lack of any sex scenes and the relative length..but whatever...just a suggestion lol ;) :roll:

But if feedback or creative input is needed on writing or plot for any story (new or old or whatever) let me know :)

Ciao
Ryn
Last edited by DollSpace on Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ehy
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:41 pm
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Contact:

Post by ehy » Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:44 pm

Thanks for your input, Keraptis! I'd like to respond to a couple of points...

BTW, I've bought and watched Upgrade. Its content wasn't really what I was looking for (though it was as advertised), which is why I haven't really commented on it, but I will point out that it was very well done - much more professional than I had expected. The acting is definitely good, production quality did not suffer for being cheap, no typical backlight problems. If the story is one that turns you on, you should have no hesitation about buying it.


[quote="keraptis"]
$2600 is EXTREMELY cheap for this project. We were lucky
in that Android675 had access to much of the equipment necessary to do the project, particularly post-production and media duplication work. The cameras, lighting, etc. had to be paid for, and of course we had to hire the crew and actresses. We had to buy costumes, of course, as well as
blank tapes and DVDs. But we cut corners wherever possible -- we had
[/quote]

I agree, it is quite cheap (I've done some theater work and have an idea of what that costs); I'm not trying to second-guess. But I was wondering about details - e.g. what did you actually need to pay for cameras, for lighting; what did you pay crew and actresses... that sort of thing. I realize you (or Android675) might not be comfortable disclosing the exact budget, for whatever reason, but I'd really be interested in some hard numbers.

[quote="keraptis"]
Just as important as the $2600 is the huge amount of time we invested in the project.[/quote]

Good point... but I have a feeling more people are willing to put in time, in one form or another, than money. Could be wrong, of course.

[quote="keraptis"]
In my humble opinion, anyone who's been paying attention to ASFR (as I have been since 1997 or so) knows that over time, there has been less and less new material of any kind being produced.
[/quote]

Really? That's not my impression at all, and I've been around since 98 or so. There are robot and freeze videos being made now (including Upgrade). Still seem to be plenty of stories, though there are dry spells. I haven't been watching photomanips much, but it seems there are lots of them still happening. I can't say we're having a huge upwelling of ASFR production, but it doesn't seem to be going away.

[quote="keraptis"]
I think this community could do a much better job of encouraging those who are creating, or trying to create, quality material.
[/quote]

I'd have to agree with that - and I've been somewhat guilty myself of saying "Wow, that was great, I should write the author!" and never getting around to doing it. On the other hand, I did create The ASFR Collections ([url]http://members.fortunecity.com/asfr/index.html[/url]) precisely to try to help good authors get more recognition... sadly it too seems to have fallen by the wayside.


That all said... I do hope more good videos can happen. I'd buy 'em. Stories are great, but it's much better to *see* the androids. And photomanips can be nice, but for me at least the best androids are the ones that look perfectly human, but *behave* in an artificial way, and it's very hard to capture that in a still picture - especially when you have to work from an existing picture you happen to have found. Video... you can do lots of great stuff in video.

And I'll see what I can do about writing some scripts. At least we can imagine the videos we could have, if only.

EHY

ehy
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:41 pm
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Contact:

Post by ehy » Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:04 pm

ok, I guess what I'm really thinking is:

I want to do this. I want to make a movie. Write it, direct it, make it really good. I want to do it for the same reason I want to write stories - it'd be fun, and satisfying, and I think I'd do it well. But the investment (in money, time, loss of anonymity) looks way too imposing.

So I want to get more hard info about the investment out there. Maybe I'll be able to say, "Yup, that's too imposing, give it up," or maybe someone else will be inspired to say "Yup, I understand why it's hard, but I can do it, now where can I find a writer or director" and talk me into being part of it... or something.

:-)

EHY

P.S. I'm also thinking someday I'll start to consistently get this wacky BBCode thing right.

User avatar
fection
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:50 pm
Location: London, UK
x 71
Contact:

Bingo!!

Post by fection » Sat Oct 12, 2002 2:29 am

Hello.
I'd just like to register my agreement with regard to encouragement.
I'm as guilty as anyone else (and there ARE people who are really good at providing feedback), but I think that the (general) lack of feedback you get (from a story, say) is the primary reason the ol' creative juices have dried up (MY creative juices - if you know what I mean....). Call me self-obsessed, but THAT's the reason I write stories. I want to know what people think of them. And people do from time to time (I've have had great repsonses a couple times). Although I've also had someone (I can't remember who) attack me quite aggressively with regard to one of my stories. At the time I replied in a rational, measured fashion. I think now I'd just tell him to fuck off....
Anyway. Maybe we could have a section on the board dedicated to feedback. It might keep the issue in peoples' minds and make it quick and easy to provide an encouraging word. Awwwww.........
fection.

User avatar
keraptis
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 5:02 am
Technosexuality: Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Location: Northeast U.S.
Contact:

Post by keraptis » Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:42 am

A couple of thoughts ...

EHY, thanks for the kind words about Upgrade, and thanks for buying it in the first place! I can understand if the specific storyline we created (a transformation story with no real sexual content other than the sight of girls in silver spandex) wasn't exactly what you were looking for. When we made it, we were hoping (1) it might actually turn a few skeptics on to transformation stories -- you may remember a long thread in which many people thought transformation was synonymous with rape -- and (2) enough people would think it was quality work from a production standpoint to encourage us to do more films around different themes. Seriously, we actually thought we'd do well enough to warrant a second project with more effects, such as exposed circuitry, physical assembly / disassembly, etc. Or more than two actresses. Or a set that looked more futuristic. Or an outdoor shoot. Or ...

Anyway, Android675 can answer the money questions in more detail. (He's out of town this weekend but I'll nudge him to visit this thread.)

As for my point about declining content updates, it's not a straight downward line. The past year or two has seen an influx of a few of notable new contributors -- and for the first time a handful of active female members which is in itself a giant leap forward. But the pattern with any particular individual is usually a period of heavy activity followed by decline. Many of the first wave of major contributors (Robotdoll, Noidguy, Rotwang, Kishin, RC, and others) are much more quiet than they once were ... and later waves (everyone from Xeran to Mirage to href) have also scaled back after expressing frustration. [I don't mean to be trying to speak for any of those people ... hope I'm not way off in my assessment.]

I think, EHY, if you're bringing script / story ideas to the table and want to turn that into a film, it will be difficult to find someone who'll produce it. But I think a few promising ideas have come out of this thread. One certainly is your idea of writing ASFR screenplays even if they never get filmed, and enjoying the "if only" conversations you hope to inspire. Very little ASFR fiction is written in play / screenplay format, so it's worth a shot for its novelty.

The second way to go is to produce something visual, but cheaper to create. You could go all the way and produce an animated short with computer-generated images, which would be fantastic. But you could also get pretty far with a medium like Flash, or even a comic-book format with individual pictures and captions. Those are formats where you CAN find people in this community willing to lend a hand with their skills -- and if you can make your story work in those formats, you know you've got something that could in theory be translated to film provided it doesn't call for big-bucks special effects.

Just think what a real talent like Rick van Koert of 4F could do with a high-quality ASFR script. He's running a pay site, but again if you could convince him people would make it worth his while, you'd end up with a mini-masterpiece.

Finally, about the feedback issue. I suspect I've touched a nerve with that one. There most definitely is a need to address the problem. One idea that might be interesting is a moderated discussion format ... essentially someone (like Sabina) would host a chat featuring one or more creators who's making themselves available to discuss a recent project (could be in production or just releaseed). Others could join the chat and the goal would be Q&A, suggestions, feedback, and group discussion about the themes raised by the work. The chat could later continue on as a message-board thread. I'd suggest that the work in question, or at least a link to it, should appear in a centralized area (maybe a section of Fembot Central, outside the BBS) dedicated to this group's original work. Right alongside each work should be links to the feedback thread for that work and the creator's contact info.

Hope those are useful ideas ... and hope enough members of the group see this thread and get a chance to think about this.

andoroido
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:01 am
Technosexuality: Built
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
x 2
x 5
Contact:

Loss of Anonymity

Post by andoroido » Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:43 am

ehy wrote:I want to write stories - it'd be fun, and satisfying, and I think I'd do it well. But the investment (in money, time, loss of anonymity) looks way too imposing.
I think the key to it all is "loss of anonymity"...

In these days of scandals and mudraking, stricter campus browsing policies, children using the family computer, cookies, spyware, profiling by ad companies, and office workers getting fired for having visited porn sites, loss of anonymity is the biggest fear.

I was a lurker for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time (I remember when asfr.com was the only thing going) afraid to post anything. [I still scrub my cache, history, cookies, etc. before letting anyone use my PC] I've barely convinced myself to take the small risk of posting under a pseudonym, but there are other lines I will not cross.

There will be no way to solve this problem of fear of exposure. Of course this fear of exposure also limits any sales of ASFR films. Credit card statements, even with innocent sounding names, can easily be figured out by a spouse, or an IRS auditor. The Internet would have to develop some system just as anonymous as cash to even solve half of that problem.

Those of us in the international community have to worry about local customs inspections, censorship standards, and strict penalties. (Though Stuckfast's PG -rated movies make for a welcome change)

I think the estimate that there may be 1000 ASFRians could easily be true, and the vast majority are probably afraid of exposure; to a wife, a roommate, their own children, a snooping co-worker, etc.

The previous discussion "Have you told your mate?" was pretty revealing about the hugely negative results of being exposed, except for a few very lucky people.

I am really shocked (and admire the courage) of people like android675 et al. being so public with this, "exposing" themselves for the benefit of the rest of us. Very cool, I salute you. 8)

On a side note, I don't beleive that the amount of ASFR material made available is decreasing each year.. It's just that we've dug up any and all the ASFR material created since Fritz Lang's Metropolis... a single year's creations seem like a drop in the bucket compared to the accumulation of all the ASFR material of the entire 20th century. (Has it all been found?)

andoroido

phantom-x
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:24 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by phantom-x » Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:30 am

You make some excellent points androido, the reason alot of people don't put more into developing these kind of projects is out of fear. For all we know someone out there wants to invest serious money in a project of this nature but won't out of fear of ridicule. But when you see articles in major magazines like Playboy and Stuff openly talking about female androids you have to wonder, who are they targetting? There's probably thousands of people out there that are into this sort of thing and would support film makers more if it were not for the embarassent they would face. I commend anyone that will make an effort to proceed with film making because someone has to get the ball rolling. Silverkarakuri is absolutely right when she says that the Canadian government could provide a grant for a film project. I've seen grants go to projects far beyond strange, like $25000 dollars to nail dead rabbits to trees and call it art or $50000 to a movie that was practically a porno 'Bubbles Galore". Here in Canada they love to throw money at just about anyone who will request it......just have solid proposal readyjust in case. So to all you budding filmakers head north!! You could end up with a much bigger budget than you would ever expect....

Phantom-X

ehy
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:41 pm
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Contact:

Post by ehy » Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:40 pm

Here's a wacky idea I had earlier:

What about a radio play?

Not on real radio, of course, but without the video? Audio is clearly inferior to video, but still seems like it would be much superior to mere text, as sound is in many ways more evocative than text. Writing a script might be tougher, as you need to find ways to convey the ideas we want using just voices and sound effects... but with the right script, production should be a hell of a lot easier. We might even be able to do a credible job with just people in the community, without anybody having to leave home, if some people are willing to record their voices (which for most of us are more anonymous than our faces) and are able to act vocally.

Consider:


- Script could be reviewed, edited, discussed etc. purely online

- Actors/actresses could audition online. Most modern computers have audio inputs; Windows comes with a bare-bones audio capture program, and recordings can be emailed or uploaded. I think even realtime audio conferencing via computer isn't too difficult, using relatively inexpensive and general-purpose equipment. And at worst, someone could record their voice on a tape recorder and mail the tape.

- Once a cast is selected, each actor/actress records his or her part the same way - probably reading each line several different times so a directory can select the best version of each line - and sends them to the director. (Or, better, audio conferencing can be used for the director to hear each line as it's read and give feedback, and maybe even to get multiple actors to be able to work together.) I know cartoon audio tracks are not always recorded with multiple actors together - this might even be the usual way of doing it.

- Sound effects and music can be recorded the same way

- The director uses an audio editing tool (Cool Edit would do the job; I'm sure there are other tools) to pick out the right pieces, combine them together, and produce a finished product.

- The finished product can be distributed online!


No budget needed for sets, costumes, transportation, cameras, gaffers... it will surely take lots of time to do, and as I said the right script, but it sounds to me like it would be much more doable than a movie.

Thoughts?

EHY

User avatar
Miss Silver Karakuri
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Sun Oct 13, 2002 5:53 pm

There are a few ideas of this somewhat being planned and done, WinterRose has been playing with the idea for a while now, but I know he wouldn't at all mind if there were others being done as well. I have done a few spoken word pieces and I have an MP3.com space which I have put them up for people to listen to (email me silverkarakuri@diary-x.com if your interested in that page) and I have told Rose that if she gets something to that stage and she sees a use for me playing a part in it, I would be honored to do so.

Infact right now I am working on a specific set of audio files dealing with TechnoFet of a different nature which I have teamed up with Rose on as well, I won't say that its totally MY baby, but Rose is kind of prime guineapig for it, and he is mostly a content editor with the project, ie She listens to it and says 'Gawd that sucks, do it OVER!' and so I do it over for him. Its deals with something both She and I have a great deal of cross interest in and we have been exchanging massive emails about subject matters relating to it and other like things the last few weeks.

Im still waiting on him to get back to me but she has a lot on his plate at the moment.

PS Yes I know there is serious pronoun dysphoria in this post.
Miss Silver Karakuri

User avatar
Brytestar
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 11:38 pm
Technosexuality: Built
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Location: Metro Detroit
x 1
x 2
Contact:

Post by Brytestar » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:56 pm

Scripts huh?

I can write a script (or teleplay) and do a little artwork by hand.

But I don't know WHO would look at it and convert it to video?

It would be neat to see my stories as well as a few other "come alive".

robolvr
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 10:55 pm
Technosexuality: Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
x 2
Contact:

He speaks...finally!

Post by robolvr » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:52 pm

Hello everyone. Sorry for taking so long to respond to this thread, but there's been so much good information in this thread that it's been hard to find a good jumping off point. But here I go anyway...

For a long time, I was like most everyone else and thought that doing an ASFR movie would be awesome. And then after many conversations, Android675 (A675), Keraptis, and I decided to do one. It was a very interesting endeavor to bring to life something that was personally a vision we all had. Of course, little did we know what we were getting into. So, hopefully in my ramblings---and that's the right word for this---folks will get something good out of it.

The first step we had to come up with was an idea for a script. Luckily enough, we had a story in mind as the basis for out movie. If you start from scratch, it might be a different challenge. ADVICE: Agree on what you want before you get deep into the project. We decided from the get-go what we wanted to go into the movie, and that makes it easier while shooting and editing.

Then, there's the money. We decided early on that we wanted to have high standards in our production. Producing a video isn't cheap, and the more people you have on board, the more economical it is. But...the problem with bringing more financial backers on board is the fact that they will want a say in what goes into the movie. 10 people with 10 different ideas can kill you before you start. ADVICE: Make sure you decide on your "team". Keep your team as small as you can, and still get enough financial backing to do it.

Next, we contacted a production company/distributor to help in the making of the movie. This of course, upped our budget. Also, by involving them, we loss some of our control as well. But that was required by us to get our movie made. Our original script had to be trimmed by several pages because of time and budget limitations. ADVICE: Keep the limiting factors in mind when polishing up your script, so you can make it doable.

Getting talent also proved to be QUITE a challenge. For those of you who have seen the video, we found two very good actresses to play our parts. But what you didn't see is the dozens of actresses we had to audition to find these two. It turned out to be extremely difficult to find talent who understood exactly what we were looking for. ADVICE: write your ASFR script, but don’t forget to make sure that outside people will get it. Keep that in mind as your writing, especially if someone not into ASFR will be in your picture.

Now, I know several folks were asking about our budget. While A675 has specifics, I will try to tell you what I know. Our original budget was about $2000, and that's with a LOT of cutting corners. Among some of the things in our budget:
---2 actresses,
---sound guy,
---cinematographer,
---gaffer,
---set designer,
---costuming,
---craft services,
---casting coordinator,
---camera,
---videotape,
Some of the ways we tried to save money: use residences for sets, combining jobs, doing our own editing. By the end, we still wound up spending a lot more than we originally had planned on. ADVICE: If you go “high-roller” on your production, expect it to be more than you think.

As to the issue of giving up anonymity, I would have to agree and disagree with that statement. Yes, to make a video like this, you do have to come out of the shadows and say, “I want an ASFR film!” But on the same time, there are plenty of ways to do it and still be somewhat anonymous. Staying anonymous was the one of the reason we went to a production company to help with the video than trying to do it all ourselves. It does allow for some distance, which is good if you’re worried. So there are ways to get involved with sacrificing your privacy.

And, I’m very much in agreement that we as fans should be a lot more appreciative of the artisans who do provide wonderful materials. (Those who can…do. Those who can’t…run a web site off of AOL that half not working. *grin*) I know creators would love a place to get feedback and discussion off of their stories and ASFR in general. Let’s hope that

Alright, I have been going on and on for a while here. (“Duh, RL.”) I know you’re tired of this, so let me say in conclusion, I hope more folks get interested in wanting to develop scripts and produce videos. From personal experience, I can say this is one of them “the journey is better than the destination” things. (And a big thanks to everyone who bought and supported our endeavor!)

If you have any questions about “Upgrade,” making an ASFR movie---or what the hell I just said in aforementioned text---feel free to post here or email me. Take care…

RL

P.S. If you ever need a consultant for your idea/production/whatever, please feel free to drop me a line. As A675 & Keraptis can attest, I’m always good for at least one idea. ;)

Android675
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 10:38 pm
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Scripts

Post by Android675 » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:07 pm

So… between the time that I started writing this and finished writing this, Robolvr posted his response above, so I haven't read what he had to say yet. If anything I say in here contradicts him, that's why.

Well, Keraptis did indeed "nudge" me to visit this thread, as promised. In order to make this response a little shorter, I'll say I agree with his views on, well, just about everything.

To directly address the budget question, I don't recall all the exact figures, but here's my recollection:

Lighting Package: $300
Gaffer/DP: $300
Grip/Electric: $200
Audio Engineer & Package: $200
Prod. Coord/Casting Dir: $300
Actresses: $400 ($200 each)
Camera Rental: $200
Costumes: $250 ($125 each)
Food/Snacks: $50
BetaSP stock: $120
VHS Stock: $75

Plus $75 for a last-minute, day of the shoot, AC500 for the camera since our batteries died a bit more quickly than expected. I know I'm forgetting some things, but the total was around $2600.

This didn't include a fee for Stuckfast, who provided the crew and talent. Our deal is that his fee would come from a percentage of sales. It also doesn't include the cost of the numerous, lengthy long-distance conference calls between Keraptis, Robolvr and myself. Nor does it include any post-production costs, including all the offline and online editing (which would have been enormous), or the cost of the location, which was loaned to us by a friend.

Everyone went over and above, considering what they were getting paid. The casting director put in many days of work to get all the actresses for our casting session and then book the talent, and she was our coordinator for the day of the shoot as well. The DP showed up for the rehearsal day. The actresses put in nearly a full day of rehearsal before the shoot. We recorded the casting session and also the rehearsal day on cameras borrowed from friends that we didn't need to pay for.

Overall, the end product wasn't exactly what we had hoped for, but considering the limitations, we were happy with it. It was incredibly satisfying to see many of the things that we had imagined and written come to life. Still, it's frustrating to have so many ideas and be faced with the realities of what is possible on a low budget. Let's face it… this is a high-budget fantasy if you want to do it right.

As for the idea of writing scripts, well, I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from being as creative as they want to be with this fetish. But if the goal is to bring something to video, I agree with Keraptis… the problem isn't the lack of ideas, but the lack of ability to get the thing physically made. Perhaps the best approach for that is to determine what the ASFR community, as a whole, can offer. Do people have access to any women who would do something like this, or equipment to get it done? Does anyone have experience producing or directing? Would everyone, or anyone, be willing to contribute funds?

And as Andoroido brought up, very perceptively, there's the loss of anonymity that goes along with the collaborative effort of making a video. From the experience of doing Upgrade, I can tell everyone that it's impossible to keep people from finding out that you have the fetish when you're working on a video. Before Upgrade, the number of non-ASFR people who knew I was into this odd little fetish was zero. Now there are at least three people who know about it, and probably 10 more that have a pretty good idea but are nice enough not to mention it.

So, those are a few thoughts. Obviously, lots more to talk about.

Android

User avatar
Miss Silver Karakuri
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:28 am

When I first thought about writing the message to start this thread I thought oh there will be some commment nothing much will really come from it. But WOW, thanks Robolvr, Keraptis, & Android675, for your information about Upgrade, its been an eye opener.

I dunno if anyone is actually starting to try out some scripts at least as a writing style I have thought about it as a style for a while now, though I have other things which are taking my time at the moment but its on the list of things to do.

But I hope that others are attempting it, at least to see what can be done... even just as a writing style, it would be something different to read.

Again thanks for the wonderful input on this topic.
Miss Silver Karakuri

User avatar
WinterRose
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:29 am
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Raleigh NC
x 1
x 1
Contact:

Post by WinterRose » Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:30 am

Wow... I'm surprised I missed this thread for as long as I have. All this sort of thing and what EHY mentioned doing audio-wise is JUST what I've been working on for the last year. E-Mailing authors of more popular ASFR and Mind Control fiction to get permission. Going on hunts for voice talent through the different ASFR message boards... I have had enough interest to keep me going in the making of the site.

In the Updates section I announced the debut of the Psycho Technoid Theater and Silver's already noticed downloads of the RobotDoll story she's hosting and serving up for all of us that I made. It would have been NICE to have other actors and actresses doing that. But hey. Silver's drafted now. So we'll definitely be getting her voice in later efforts. There are a few other feellers I have out there for voice talent as well. But it's all dependant on cooperation. And like our intrepid trio of film-makers, the biggest obstacle would be to find female voice talent to DO some of the lines that women speak in these stories.

Having seen the success of the Warp My Mind website concerning freely available fetish hypnosis inductions inspired me to keep on with it when the people and actors adopted a sort of wait and see attitude to see if I'd suck or not. Here's hoping that the initial audioplay will encourage interest! This is something ANYone with a computer and the interest could do. Well, and a microphone. And the more people involved, the more we can do!

-WinterRose
Image

User avatar
WinterRose
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:29 am
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Raleigh NC
x 1
x 1
Contact:

Post by WinterRose » Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:35 am

By the way Android675. I never heard from you when I tried to see if you'd be willing to let me adapt The Offer. I actually recorded that for myself a long time ago. But would love to give it a proper doing up with a complete cast instead of just me reading it.

-WinterRose
Image

User avatar
Brytestar
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 11:38 pm
Technosexuality: Built
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Location: Metro Detroit
x 1
x 2
Contact:

Post by Brytestar » Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:13 pm

My question is IF I TYPE a story. WHO would be willing to make it a script or "adopt" it? This is interesting.

ehy
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 3:41 pm
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
Contact:

Post by ehy » Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:56 pm

WinterRose: *blink* I guess it's possible, then. Cool!

Brytestar (& others potentially): I'd certainly consider adapting a story I liked (whether I wrote it originally or not) into a video or audio script, if asked by someone who wanted to make use of it. But keep in mind not all stories work in all forms - when I read Rose's page I was tempted to up and volunteer "Hey, you've got my permission to record any of my stories you can!" -- but then realized some of them probably wouldn't make particularly good audio stories.

EHY

User avatar
WinterRose
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:29 am
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Raleigh NC
x 1
x 1
Contact:

Post by WinterRose » Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:59 pm

Well, I'd certainly be willing. I'd certainly want to read it before hand tho. I'm a pretty finicky person. (Gee, did my reviews at the haven suggest that?)
Image

User avatar
WinterRose
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:29 am
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Raleigh NC
x 1
x 1
Contact:

No Need for Anonymity...

Post by WinterRose » Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:59 pm

It's been mentioned that a loss of anonymity is a factor for a lot of people. And surely I've had word from not just one woman that doing this is just too great a risk.

Okay, let's deconstruct that a bit.

First. Unless you're Casey Kasem, there's not THAT many people that are going to recognize your voice only. And good ol Casey's been doing his thing for decades. In a very rare once in a while, and this is if you're a radio personality, someone's going to think your voice is familiar. But considering the niche we tend to be, you're not going to walk into a job interview and have someone point at you like a body snatcher and say, "I RECOGNIZE YOU! YOU WERE THE VOICE OF T-457 IN THE OFFER!!!"

And hey, supposing someone in a job interview DID recognize you? Umm, okay, what's the problem there? Obviously this person is one of us, or they wouldn't have recognized you in the first place. You and said stranger now have some established common ground that far surpasses anything based on some hollow social anecdote. And if you're meeting professionally in a manner where your speaking skills come into play, you'll already have established with that person that you can speak clearly and professionally enough to perform for others online. Correct?

Which brings me to my second point. Supposing someone DID recognize you? I fail to see the problem here. Okay, that's not PRECISELY true. I'm sure there must be at least a FEW creeps in our lurker pool. But geez. Say someone close to you found out about what you were into and what you'd read for. What's the problem there? At that point, you have a chance for honest and open dialogue about why you read this kind of fiction in the first place. Believe it or not, you sort of have the moral high ground here.

"HUH??" I hear you say. Nono. It's true. You are engaging in a bit of fantasy and doing something that satisfies you in some way by reading this kind of fiction. Lending your voice to such an effort would be a bit of a step up, true. But anyone close to you who's going to get judgemental on you and make you feel bad for doing something you enjoy that's THIS harmless? Maybe the talk between you and that person should be about a lot more than just your reading Technosexual and Mind Control fiction.

Relationships aren't about having to hide bits of yourself away from the other. They're about honesty and communication, or they're doomed from the start. And if you're being repressed or made to feel shame about your sexuality by another, your sexuality is not the problem. (Assuming you're not hurting others in its expression) The problem is the person forcing you to hide it away and feel that shame. Whether it's a family member, a sigificant other, or even yourself for enabling the person that's judging you. (Adopts a Tom Servo voice) Think about it, won't you?

"We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write powtry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with *passion*!"
-Mr. Keating, 'Dead Poets Society'

-WinterRose

The Bestiary - The WinterRose ASFR Website
winterrose.web1000.com

The Psycho Technoid Theater of the Wired
psycho.technoid.theater.web1000.com
Image

andoroido
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:01 am
Technosexuality: Built
Identification: Human
Gender: Male
x 2
x 5
Contact:

Re: No Need for Anonymity...

Post by andoroido » Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:26 am

WinterRose wrote:Relationships aren't about having to hide bits of yourself away from the other. They're about honesty and communication, or they're doomed from the start.
I think relationships are *all about* hiding bits of ourselves that would freak out or just generally annoy our significant other. How many science fiction stories have there been about how dreadful it would be if we could read each others' minds? A society of total openness would be hell.

Here's a few thoughts I would never tell my girl.
Because I am a man, I have these piggish thoughts, but I don't share them.

"I wish your breasts were more perky."
"You're pretty but you're no supermodel."
"Your laugh is kind of annoying to me, but I'll deal with it."
"Are those crow's feet around your eyes getting bigger?"
"That meal was about 2 out of 5 stars, but thanks anyway for cooking."
"I wanna have a menage-a-trois with your younger, cuter sister."
"I wish you had an "on/off" switch"

..and the like ;)

Perhaps this is one of the key drives for wanting a gynoid. Because she is perfect, you will never have the thoughts above. Any point of complaint could be rebuilt or reprogrammed... making life much easier than having to learn to live with imperfection. A great fantasy.

Sure, there a some great partners who will accept this harmless fetish, but most will probably be freaked out by it, ruining an otherwise good relationship. We ask not to be judged on our fantasies, but should we judge others for finding our fantasies disturbing?

Hopefully, we are in strong relationships where we can predict whether our partners will be freaked out or not by this revelation. If you can't even begin to guess what your partner's tolerance level is, then you need more time together.

We can also reveal things a step at a time. For example, "I want to draw/paint a picture of you." leads to a basic freeze scenario of posing for the picture.. from which you can gage the reaction of your partner to being frozen, or posed a bit by you.. with no pressure on the partner to "perform", and the activity is widely accepted as romantic. If it goes well, you can move on... There are other games... ;)

Luckily, there are so many facets or ASFR that can be made into acceptable games, whereas other fetishes are fairly take-it-or-leave-it.
A good partner will cooperate in your games, and might even figure out your fetish on their own.. which gives them the freedom to accept it fully, or just play along to keep you happy, because he/she loves you. If your partner seems uncomfortable with your games, then you have your answer, and you haven't ruined your relationship over this fetish.

Gradual expsoure to new ideas is always easier to accept. It almost makes me cry to see people pleading in the forum for the best way to blurt out, "I wanna have sex with robots! I wish YOU were a robot!" (well, basically that's it, isn't it?) ;) and expect instant acceptance. It's like playing Russian roulette with your relationship.

Sadly, wishing for our sexual fantasies to be accepted by everyone is itself a fantasy that will probably take even longer to come true than the appearance of gynoids.

andoroido

User avatar
Miss Silver Karakuri
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by Miss Silver Karakuri » Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:39 am

Regarding discussion about what we should tell our partners and not. I think the list you gave Androido, is more about being tactful by not saying it instead of saying it.

Some people are heavily into this subject and for better or worse might find honest discussion with their partner good or bad, very relieving to the soul. Others its not so much of an issue and so they are left with a little more time and ways to handle things.

Yes just blurting out such things usually is BAD, and I really like the ways you give for examples, so far with my lovers I have been open with except for two and its because they weren't 'lovers' but simply people I 'fucked', so they didn't count. But everyone else have been aware of my interest and they didn't take it badly, honestly they thought it was a joke, that I was kidding, and they just accepted it another weird aspect of me.

I am also seeing things from a womans point of view, and as such men are a little better at taking weird kinks than other women are, although the women Ive slept with haven't been all that adverse either, but I do take a little bit more care when I can. The longer it goes however the harder it can be to tell someone, which is why I usually get it out of the way early. But thats me, and sometimes thats not possible for others.
Miss Silver Karakuri

User avatar
WinterRose
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 5:29 am
Technosexuality: Built and Transformation
Identification: Android
Gender: Female
Location: Raleigh NC
x 1
x 1
Contact:

Post by WinterRose » Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:28 pm

FNNNK! Okay. I suppose I'm not advocating complete honesty here, folks. It would seem that no-one can actually function if you're COMPLETELY honest. For that matter, I just watched Finch on Just Shoot Me get threatened to have his head stapled to a wall for telling a supermodel JUST what he'd like to do with her. There's little things that aren't as hugely important to be completely honest about. The little things are just that. Little. I suppose the distinction should be made tho. Your sexuality is NOT little. My goddess and bumblebees I sound like Dan Savage. Pardon me. When did I sign on to be a relationship counselor? Eww.

Perhaps it's just me, but my own wanting a gynoid was never about being able to just program over the minor disagreements. I mean the girl that never says no or gets upset with you? As many twilight zones that have been based on the idea of complete honesty or broadcasting every little thought, there have to be just as many warning us about the hell that comes of enforced thought and the 'perfect' mate.

I suppose it works for some. And I suppose you have to go with what works. Bitter experience has taught me that keeping my own likes and dislike buried for the sake of a relationship turns into bitter resentment. Am I better off out of the relationship I was in? In my opinion, absolutely. We've spoken since and she even apologized for being intolerant and controlling. (Big vindication moment. Guys should get those every week. ^_^ ) Should I judge for being judged? If she starts it, sure! When I get judged I'm REALLY not good about turning the other cheek.

The gradual thing sounds neat. You make a ver VERY good point. Hell, I think I even remember reading such things in the past. My own advice pretty much comes under the category of 'This is what I would do. Maybe you should think this through before trying it at home.' To me, the communication and honesty thing has to be there or it's pretty pointless to start with. The operative thing being 'For ME.'

This is all really beside the point about scripts though. I was really trying to just deconstruct the whole fear of loss of anonymity thing when it comes to finding performers and producers and things for the media we really wanna produce. I'll call an 'end of aside' thing for all of us here. The point was everyone... just... Well, do something!

Oh yeah. Rose needs Women. *^_^*

-WinterRose
Image

Post Reply
Users browsing this forum: Maria and 25 guests