Black mirror?

[tectile]

I've been hearing good things about "Black Mirror" but haven't seen any episodes yet.
Some have compared it to a modern day "Twilight zone" and we know there were a couple of episodes of that show that were of interest to this group.
Could be something to keep an eye on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mirr ... _series%29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jROLrhQkK78

[smalk]

Absolutely a great series, recommended 10/10. The authors are fantastically sadist in the imagination of possible futures.

No gynoids so far, though.

[dale coba]

After the first episode, I don't have any motivation to see the rest. The production felt shallow and uninteresting. I wasn't put off by the subject matter. I thought the delivery was lacking. I'd rather go back and watch New Outer Limits episodes about the future from 20 years ago.

Fans of the show, a question: If I were to watch other episodes, would I have an equivalent chance to complain?

- Dale Coba

[33cl33]

If you watch the third episode - you'll wonder who made the first one. The first one felt like a Dr Who script reject, the second one was pretty good, but still felt low-rent... The third episode is top-notch short filmmaking.

[dale coba]

Thanks - i don't mind being the iconoclast in most circles, but I was beginning to wonder about all the BM enthusiasm. I'll skip over episode two, give the series another go sometime.

- Dale Coba

[tectile]

Thanks - i don't mind being the iconoclast in most circles, but I was beginning to wonder about all the BM enthusiasm. I'll skip over episode two, give the series another go sometime.

- Dale Coba

I just watched the first two episodes and I would not skip over the second one.

The story isn't bad and the central female character is very sexy.

[33cl33]

Just watched the fourth episode... Were the genders swapped, it would be some prime FC material. Another very solid episode, too.

But it got me thinking about the usual feminist response to fembot-related films. The most recent being a lot of reviews and interviews about Ex Machina. People just can't help but point out that a male is using idealized females as sexual objects... And a lot of ink is spent on verbal eye-rolling at how predictable that storyline is.

But with Black Mirror - the only difference is the woman is the human, and the sexual object is a male robot. Were the roles reversed, absolutely nothing about the plot or dialogue would need to be altered. Yet somehow, it doesn't strike people as some sort of slight against males. It just seems like a touching story about a woman dealing with loss (much like in Her - which also got slammed by feminist bloggers and reviewers).

I'm not trying to criticize anyone - just thought it was an interesting use of sex with an android on screen... and society seems, so far, to be extremely accepting of the depiction.

[BD]

it feels you ARE trying to criticize, just wishing not to be blamed about it.

Listen, i like my women plastic and metal and i get aroused by malfunctions and everything.

So yeah i like my women at their most object.

But even i can tell that the "swapped genders" is a welcome novelty and not the norm. Even when i get normal movies, without femobots they love to show me every single curve of those sweet bodies, (and i'm grateful for that) which i don't see done with men.

So, when i see feminists protesting i can safely say that they are right. And they have very good reasons for that. There just is not as much objectification of men as there is of women. They want more movies where men are objectified? Sure, bring them on. Who cares. I probably won't watch them, because i'm not interested in men that way.

Personally i don't feel "butt hurt" just because there is a white fly of a man getting objectified for once.

[33cl33]

Not intending to go off on a tangent, at least not too far.

My hope would be that more feminist-minded folk would actually speak up in the forum, because I think the topic of this site offers some of the most direct territory for fiction to explore. Ex Machina, and Black Mirror deal with these issues in very intelligent, direct manners. And if we get to a point where realistic humanoid robots are available - this will all be discussed very awkwardly in what has become a very dumbed-down mass media.

I do take issue with plenty of feminist speakers / bloggers - who seem to be feminist for the sake of making a living at being a feminist. Or who's end goal seems to be removing our natural, gender-based inclinations from all aspects of society. Feminism, as far as equality is concerned, is a noble mindset if you ask me. But like any ideology, it can go so far as to become absurd.

Basically, I agree with you, BD. I was just trying to avoid phrases like "butt hurt" since they tend to place us fembot-lovers pretty firmly in a category for those of the feminist mindset to write off as sexist pigs.

[BD]

ok then.

But why did you bring up the argument at all? A close encounter with a feminazi just right before your original post?

[33cl33]

But why did you bring up the argument at all?

Why indeed.

Thought it might be worthy of conversation. Didn't intend to frame it so much as argument as much as an interesting episode, well-executed, that might shed light on some stereotypical gender clashes. With men and women who self-identify in all manner of ways on this site, some who've likely seen the episode, and some who haven't - I thought it might be interesting territory to explore.

Perhaps I worded things poorly to that end.

My mistake.

-Back to lurking-

[Mirage]

33cl33, the media and today's (and internet) society is clearly double standard, of course. If the episode was the opposite, the man kept the female android locked up in his attic, many women would scream PERVERT and such over it, of course. I would not be surprised BBC would have gotten hate mail and such.


I work at a location, that 78% female (gov job), and I see the insane double standard everyday. Less and less men want to work where I am (including me) and the things women gets away is shocking. Hell, I had a some of my many characters (drawings) in my lonesome cubicle, and was ask to ask to remove some, because, OH MY GOD, some was of Emma, who is a pretty woman. Of course, the one that was offended was ugly women, evendo, I had drawings of male characters too, that I was allowed to keep on my wall....

[dale coba]

That had little to do with feminism. Your ego was pruned. You don't own your workplace, and you vent here - expecting agreement, looking for an echo of bile?

Well then you deserve to know that I think you were entirely in the wrong.

- Dale Coba

[Mirage]

Dale, What is wrong with you? I see you spout so much excrements, thinking you are so an intellectual, and I see such a lonely angry bitter man. Just wow.

If you can't understand what I convay in my first comment, into how women, or feminist can twist into many subject into double standards, into how they can get offended, then, well, too bad.

[smalk]

Your intent was good, Mirage, but the example is not defensible. A double standard would have been if a female coworker were allowed to keep their drawings of hot men, while you were asked to remove yours of hot women. I wouldn't find strange that in a gov job you are supposed to keep a certain degree of professional look for your working place.

[Mirage]

Guess what, some women do have pics of hot men posted. But the men are secured enough to not make it an issue. Anyway, this is just a little exemple about the drawings (notice, only the female drawing was asked to be removed). Working in a mostly female environment can be hell, also for a woman too, as I heard many horror stories too, from the female point of view also.

There are lots of exemples where the media or situation got twisted around, as GAMERGATE, and other situations the media reports, being not bias (I am taking no side on GAMERGATE).

[jolshefsky]

I think there may be a disconnect in the argument. If I am reading your comments correctly, Mirage, the women outnumber men by a large margin, and women discriminate against men. An anti-feminist argument would be that because women do it too, it's okay for men to do it to women. I disagree with that argument: that behavior is wrong, no matter which side perpetuates and which side suffers. As you're in the position of the victim, I would hope your actions are toward eliminating the discriminatory behavior (even if your thoughts turn to vengeance–that's just normal.)

Also, as you can see, it is very difficult to articulate your problems without being blamed. I try to live by a rule that, if I have no useful evidence either way, I will believe a victim over a perpetrator. Hopefully you don't feel attacked.

[TheSpotConlon]

We certainly are still talking about Black Mirror.

Anyway, what I found really interesting in that particular episode was twist on the old "don't recreate people" plot. It's told from the creator's point of view, but eventually she's the only one poorer from it. The creation was even out of her hands, as the simulant comes to her fully-formed without any real action on her part. It's the most intriguing premise; it deals with our anxieties of loss and projection, rather than screaming "phones and reality television are bad! Thomas Edison was a witch!"

[dale coba]

If you can't understand what I convey in my first comment, into how women, or feminist can twist into many subject into double standards, into how they can get offended, then, well, too bad.

They didn't get offended, so much as you demonstrated you feel you have the right to be offensive. No wonder they don't want to work with you.

You do not understand the definition of a double standard.

A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for similar situations

OTHER FACTORS BEING EQUAL, there is a discrepancy between two groups.

There is nothing equal to start with, in this very imbalanced world, about the power and the vulnerability of men compared to women.

Fembot Central is no place for your petty, egotistical, anti-"feminist" workplace gripes.

- Dale Coba

[Mirage]

jolshefsky, obviously, my situation is highly discrimating toward men. If a male does complain, he will viewed as having a male agenda, and will be seen as being sexist toward women by all the women and likely be the one being reprimanded for his actions (Seen it often). But again, this is not about my situation, as I seen it, heard about it and read about it multiple times in similar situations.

My reasoning and my point, is, feminists can view any situations, stories, art, tv shows, movies, etc, and change it into as the women are being victimized, or the male had a machismo view toward women with it.

Like 33cl33 mentioned, as he pointed out, most women will see the movie Ex Machina, as being sexist toward women. But if the role would be reversed, the female would applaud it and see it as being nothing negative about it..

I do agree, we do live in a society where many women are indeed victimized, but as we are also do live in a society that gets so easily offended by it's own shadows, that women (feminists) will twist the views of the subject that indeed had zero agenda toward them and make it a loud issue, out of nothing.

Anyway, I want to bring it back to the show, and I watched all episodes and I hope they do more. Do we know if new episodes are to be made? (I like the female convict one).

PS: Dale, most women do loves working with me, as I treat them very nicely and with respect. It's the feminist that freaks out on me. You should see them freak out when I take a sick day for helping my wife at home, HOW DARE A MAN STAY OUT HOME AND TAKE CARE OF HIS WIFE, MY EX-HUSBAND NEVER DID THAT TO ME!)

I think there is something very wrong in today's society with women, I won't deny this fact. As so many women prefer the BAD BOYS over nice guys (and wonder why they have black eyes after an argument) and I think they are confused by what men are suppose to be behave with them now. I always open the door for women, always. I am likely get a 50/50 chance of offending the women, or pleasing her. I must point out, usually, the one offended by my gesture, are ugly ones. I don't think it's a coincidence....

[tdlsn]

I happen to agree with Mirage's observation above. Many a hetero males' fantasy for a fully functional fembot for companionship/sex is generally looked upon negatively which is why so far there has been a least two feature length films;one a comedy the other a sci-fi drama involving a female and a male droid and none with a fembot.

Back to lurking.

[cyberdude]

Pardon me for reviving an old thread.
The fourth season of Black Mirror was recently released. I admit, I haven't watch all of the episodes yet (S1, first few of S2, 1st and last of S4), but it seems that a recurring theme is uploading minds or consciousness. Particularly in the episodes I've watched recently, which was the first and last of S4.
SPOILER ALERT
In S4E1, a guy has a copy of the people he knows in his computer, which he uses to live his Trekkie fantasies (where he has godlike powers in the world he made but he didn't turn the uncooperative girl into a fembot). S4E6 started with something else, then moved to the issue of transferring mind A to the inactive regions of brain B. Then the mind was moved again into a plush toy (another missed opportunity).
With that said, I feel that Ehy's stories, the Courtesy Suites universe, would be a great thing to explore in that media. "Choices", for example, has a woman "donate" a copy of her mind. The story then shifts to the experiences of the mind in a robot body. "Market Test" touches the issue of a "donated" mind unwilling to take orders, seemingly forced to donate, or was stolen.
I really feel that these stories are within the realm of the issues that Black Mirror touches on. If someone have any connections or ways to contact the people involved, feel free to pitch the ideas.