Artificial Beings, but not robots?

General chat about fembots, technosexual culture or any other ASFR related topics that do not fit into the other categories below.
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Pretty Sissy Dani
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Artificial Beings, but not robots?

Post by Pretty Sissy Dani » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Let me explain:

One of the consistent themes of Star Trek since Next Generation was the holodeck or holosuite, in which you could have "adventures" in a world populated by beings who are not real, who are merely computer simulations.

Often these people are attractive women. Perhaps the most famous is "Minuet," played by Carolyn McCormick--an artificial being so perfect that Riker falls in love with her.

Where do these fall in our spectrum of interest?

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Tio
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Post by Tio » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:40 pm

Oh the fun i would have with a holodeck....

You could always generate a hologram that looks and acts like a bot. I wouldnt say no to that.
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Post by T-elos/Thurosis » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:01 pm

To have a holodeck would be cool! :D

I could revive in some kind of way my Manga figures ! and have fun and adventures with them ...

That is something that i longing to ....
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Post by TheSpotConlon » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:05 pm

Of course I would want a holodeck! The only problem would be when it constantly malfunctions and tries to kill a bunch of people; that seemed to happen at least once a week on the Enterprise.

I think, too, that the holodeck is concurrent with our fetish, at least in part. There's the control aspect, one which may be even stronger in the hologram apparition version. Those who love the circuits and wires may be totally out of luck, but who's to say that the holodeck couldn't cook that up as well?

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Karel
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Post by Karel » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:28 pm

For sure, it falls under our heading, as I've always believed. If it wasn't for those holodeck episodes, the later incarnations of Star Trek would be wholly useless, save for two episodes of TNG. You had the freezing, reprogramming, submissiveness, and, for the capricious, wholesale deletion.

Lol, the concept did ruin the franchise as a whole though. No argument there, SpotConlon. When every other episode of "Voyager" became a holodeck episode, culminating in a WWII simulation that blew up half the ship, I lost my suspension of disbelief. No way any competent military organization would install those things on their ships.

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Lord of the Geeks
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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:06 pm

I think we all agree that holodeck type things would satisfy us.. if for no other reason than we could indulge any fantasy we have.
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udgang99
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Post by udgang99 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:16 am

I love the idea of the holodeck ... but in fear of sounding like a total moron, can't we all agree that the holodeck is pure sci-fi ... now and even waaay into the future?! I honestly belive that robots will walk amongst us at some point, and that AI will become reality (perhaps not now, but maybe in 50 years?), and that whole transhumanity might even work out too...
But the thought of a holodeck is just too far reached for my imagination. I can see it working if you sit down in a chair, and are placed with sort of an VR-helmet, but not by simply walking into a room - and how would the whole I-touch-it-and-it-feels-real work ???

Hmmmm ... but it SURE would be cool! :
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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:04 am

they explain it by being very confined and powerful forcefeilds, which animate matter created by the holodeck.. in a replicator type manor. we'll only get this kind of stuff if we get a very good grasp on the basic laws of matter, and have replicator type technology.
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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:28 am

udgang99 wrote:I love the idea of the holodeck ... but in fear of sounding like a total moron, can't we all agree that the holodeck is pure sci-fi ... now and even waaay into the future?! I honestly belive that robots will walk amongst us at some point, and that AI will become reality (perhaps not now, but maybe in 50 years?), and that whole transhumanity might even work out too...
But the thought of a holodeck is just too far reached for my imagination. I can see it working if you sit down in a chair, and are placed with sort of an VR-helmet, but not by simply walking into a room - and how would the whole I-touch-it-and-it-feels-real work ???

Hmmmm ... but it SURE would be cool! :
Actually, researchers at UNC had begun work on the "holodeck" technology about 7 years ago. Their prototype version utilized solid objects as part of the experience, and overall it was more of an active environment rather than a true holodeck, but it's a step in the right direction.

Interestingly enough, the technology was used and improved upon by the North Carolina School of the Arts, which used the technology as a set for a few lab productions they had. They then used a fog curtain as a projection medium and employed virtual actors on stage.

We're not as close as we are with AIs, but we're moving in the right direction. ;)

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tully
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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:30 am

Lord of the Geeks wrote:they explain it by being very confined and powerful forcefeilds, which animate matter created by the holodeck.. in a replicator type manor. we'll only get this kind of stuff if we get a very good grasp on the basic laws of matter, and have replicator type technology.
I'd submit that we do have a very good grasp on matter and energy. What we currently lack is technology that is fine enough, yet powerful enough to change these states without causing fission.

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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:32 am

uncontrolled fission.. or the ability to reintigrate the matter from a pure energy state. no saying impossible.. i think its highly probably..just will take time..
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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:37 am

We can already do that...it just takes a nuke to make it happen. ;)

Fission controlled or uncontrolled won't allow for the type of work needed to be done by replicator-type technology. We're talking about a near-instantaneous reaction, so unless it can be held as a transitory state, any type of fission would render your matter useless.

Unless of course the technology advances to the point where usable pseudo-matter is found to exist in a fissionable state, but now we're just talking theoretics.

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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:44 am

I apologize...I'm going waaaay off thread-topic here.

Attempting to bring it back around...

While I'd like a holodeck for the settings it could provide, and the wealth of scenarios it could play out for me...I'd still like to have my robot. (Call me old fashioned)

I'd like for my companion to be able to leave the 'deck with me, after all.

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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:51 am

i always assumed the process involved slowing pure energy down to the point it condensed into matter, then molding those sub atomic particles into the needed atoms, then those atoms into the proper molecules, and those into the materal. (granted slight imperfections would leave the resulting matter radioactively unstable..) rather than begining the process with some easily manipulated protomaterial. the energies involved are incredible, more on par with matter/antimatter reaction than a simple hydrogen bomb. seeing as for a deconstruction process you are turning (x)lbs of material into pure energy.. which is exactly what a m/am reaction does. and taking the same amount of energy... controling it to where you basically run the explosion backwards, reshaping the matter as it runs backtogether. i guesss you could start out with a supply of naked protons, and neutrons, it you can find them... add electrons after binding them, and you've formed the atom. but thats would be a protomatter... (didnt researchers do something similar awhile back, and turn lead into gold, by bombarding lead with high energy hydrogen, until enough of them were absorbed into the lead atoms to make them gold?) it is a start
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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:53 am

and to bring it back to a reasonable facsimile of topic... with that kind of tech.. you could construct bots at a molecular level.. seemless. and freely replaced. something breaks... you simply dematerialize her, and reintergrate her back to original specs.
I want a mechanical mordsith.

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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:12 am

Lord of the Geeks wrote:i always assumed the process involved slowing pure energy down to the point it condensed into matter, then molding those sub atomic particles into the needed atoms, then those atoms into the proper molecules, and those into the materal.
That's one approach to the process, but the search is still on for the quintessential "God Particle" (no, not that God Particle, but another one) that would essentially be shaped by the energy applied, much like in the core of a star. The process you describe is far more practial, but the energy required to manipulate sub atomic particles (let alone "slow down" energy...but that's an entirely different discussion ;) ) is prohibitive.
(granted slight imperfections would leave the resulting matter radioactively unstable..)
Actually, in theory, such a substance/atom would be perfect as it was directly engineered.
rather than begining the process with some easily manipulated protomaterial. the energies involved are incredible, more on par with matter/antimatter reaction than a simple hydrogen bomb.
See, that's where I find the process and theory absolutely fascinating! There's actual hope that be deconstructing anti/dark matter, we can learn more about strong and weak forces. We know it's out there, we're pretty such it's "everywhere"...we just have to get at it and figure out proper containment.
seeing as for a deconstruction process you are turning (x)lbs of material into pure energy.. which is exactly what a m/am reaction does. and taking the same amount of energy... controling it to where you basically run the explosion backwards, reshaping the matter as it runs backtogether. i guesss you could start out with a supply of naked protons, and neutrons, it you can find them... add electrons after binding them, and you've formed the atom. but thats would be a protomatter
True, but as far as we know there is no way to make this transition perfect, there's always some waste...which brings it down to another problem.

We already know the tremendous amount of energy that's contained in a very small amount of matter. Thus, it's going to take a tremendous amount of energy to create a small bit of matter...even a tiny amount. The biggest hurdle to overcome in this technology (as is the case in most technologies) is the power requirements.
... (didnt researchers do something similar awhile back, and turn lead into gold, by bombarding lead with high energy hydrogen, until enough of them were absorbed into the lead atoms to make them gold?) it is a start
Seaborg supposedly did it, but he was a chemist. I'm not familiar with the method that he would have used. The Soviets did it (by accident if memory serves), it's done today with particle accelerators. They and nuke reactors are used to transmute or create elements, but again, we're talking about minute amounts being generated by massive amounts of energy. Nowhere near practical.

I actually think (by way of our original discussion) that it would prove to be more energy efficient for our holodeck to use the "shaped energy/force filed" technology over replicators.

(Fascinating discussion!)

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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:14 am

Lord of the Geeks wrote:and to bring it back to a reasonable facsimile of topic... with that kind of tech.. you could construct bots at a molecular level.. seemless. and freely replaced. something breaks... you simply dematerialize her, and reintergrate her back to original specs.
heh...then I'm a romantic...I don't think I'd want my robot to be "broken down" into her base elements and reconstituted again and again...it would be a great way to solve my parking problem, though. ;)

But with this kind of tech...I suppose I could also have a "portable hologram generator" so my artificial person could walk off the holodeck with me, eh?

If I'm being honest, though...I think I'd prefer my "traditional" android.

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Post by Lord of the Geeks » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:26 am

the doctor on voyager has such a thing.

depends on the energy requirements for a cohesive forcefeild and how that energy is supplied as to how portable it could be. I agree that a forcefeild is far more energy practicle and would require less advancements given our understanding of electrostatic forces.

if they are theoretically possible.. we will have replicator type tech eventually... think of the power generating capibilities if you can transmute ANY matter into pure energy. a lump of lead could run a city for years. this tech also leads to energy transporters or (beaming) once they are prsice enough to exactly put a living thing together 1 molecule at a time.

I always thought they downplayed the medical ues of a transporter. if you have a broken arm, dematerialze you, and reintergate you with the arm not broken. and no injury could be so greiveus.. even death.. that dematerializing you and reintrigrateing you using a non-dead/injured pattern could heal it. if the body isn't wounded, no systems are failing.. everything is put back together right... there's no reason you couldnt be immortal. (granted.. unless they found a way to store the momories and retigrate those, you'd forget anything that happened after your last saved copy was made.... given as much as those people used the transporters.. the loss of a couple of days worth of memory is a good trade off for living. )(and yes.. it does open the possibility of copying a person exactly)

p.s.
if anyone out there has a job in, or knows of a job out there in cybernetics and/or this kind of stuff. there's a brilliant if not eccentric loose cannon type over here that would sell his left nut to get a job in the field. :D
I want a mechanical mordsith.

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tully
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Post by tully » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:42 am

"Eventually"? Sure...it will happen eventually. Once the full transmutation problem is fixed, it will follow. I just don't think it's going to be in my lifetime, or a lifetime or so hence.

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Post by Propman » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:15 pm

Actually i was going to write a VR story. I like the unreality aspect, and the machine approach to humanity.

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Post by Pretty Sissy Dani » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:28 pm

Actually, as long as we're on this topic, anyone else familiar with "S1m0ne" (variously pronounced "Sim-1" or "Simone"), the 2002 film with Al Pacino and Rachel Roberts?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258153/

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