Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

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Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:14 am

Appears to be a prop / concept design from Comic Con...

http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/07/23/gh ... eo+News%29
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:55 am

I seam what you did there.
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:47 pm

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by T-elos/Thurosis » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:59 am

I apologize for my rant in advance now and here already, but maybe someome share the same opinion...

So here we go:

This movie or to be exact this Live Action Adaptation of Ghost in the Shell is going to flop like many other Live Action Adaptations...
Why i think so? If those Trailers are serious ment..... it totally flopped at giving the (at least) the same Atmosphere of the Anime....
I know been in discussion or even a Shitstorm on the internet about Hollywood using a western person to act as "Motoko Kusanagi"...
That does not fit, but just watched the last trailer of those five, and Motoko being afraid? WTF? I can't remember seeing her afraid of something...
She is always calm and cautious! Surpised yeah, but afraid and not able to hold the gun straight pointing?
Beside she is a FULL BODY CYBORG, that should not be possible!
I do not know how experience this film director is... but i bet he did not done his homework well enough....
And i'm sick of watching these shitty Live Action apatations!
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by TheShoveller » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:04 pm

I picked up on that, too. Another thing that is my "I'm a purist, dammit!" rant:

Aramaki using a gun. Specifically, Aramaki using the old revolver-style handgun that Togusa uses. I don't think he ever used a gun in the series, let alone a revolver. He strikes me as someone who'd carry around a semiautomatic.


If the cast pics are accurate... I kinda don't like them. Some look pretty good - Saito looks like you could shave his mustache and he'd be a shoe-in for the anime version. Ishikawa looks pretty accurate. Aramaki, actor-wise, looks like an old Asian man which is pretty much who Aramaki is. Togusa? Looks like he's ready for retirement instead of "young hopeful rookie who's starting a family." Borma? HOW DO YOU GO FROM A BIG BALD DUDE TO A BLACK GUY WITH DREADS?!? And Batou doesn't even have his cybernetic eyes! He just looks like a confused white dude in a trenchcoat!


But again, I'm a bit of a purist with Ghost in the Shell. I know some things would have to be changed to make it more universal, given it's a Hollywood movie, but.... come on. There's two things to Batou that stand out - white hair, and his "someone replaced my eyeballs with nickels" face. Plus I don't see them managing to do the Laughing Man storyline justice squeezing it into a two-hour timeframe.


Anyway, sorry for the rant. I want it to do well, but...

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Karel » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:41 pm

My thoughts:

1) Just to get this out of the way (although I'm not sure it even bears mentioning anymore) the "controversy" over casting Scarlett Johansson is entirely ginned up and for U.S. consumption only. Japanese people have no issue with the casting of a white American starlet for the lead in a Hollywood adaptation of a Japanese film, and the few "man on the street" reaction interviews that I've seen suggest that most Japanese are flattered that Hollywood chose such a good actress. In the case of a Japanese remake of an American film (a circumstance that I admit I can't point to a single concrete example of) there would almost certainly be a Japanese recasting without controversy. Asian people are not politically correct, and when they think of a "Hollywood movie star" they are invariably thinking of a white person. The only actors who might possibly be able to confound that assumption are Denzel Washington or Samuel L. Jackson, i.e. the two most bankable black leads... but they don't (their movies invariably do terribly in Asia, regardless of quality). There are no actresses.

Where was this controversy with the Spike Lee remake of "Oldboy"? Or freaking Richard Gere and Jennifer Lopez in "Shall we Dance"? Nowhere...which incidentally may have had something to do with the fact that those remakes sucked. As this one is likely to do, but not because of Scarlett Johansson. The sight of her in this immediately gives me flashbacks to Charlize Theron in "Aeon Flux", another animation-to-live action adaptation that was completely terrible. And I especially love all those people who say that Johansson's casting as the very Occidental-looking Motoko Kusanagi (whose cyborg body can look like any race, remember) is especially egregious because the original "Ghost in the Shell" was all about depicting 'Japanese society'...when the first film was very clearly set in Hong Kong. The evidence for this is that:

A) Katsuhiro Otomo says as much in his interview for the Manga DVD;
B) the scenery is littered with Chinese characters but no katakana;
C) the skyline seen in shots from the Major's apartment and boat resembles that of a future Hong Kong more than it does anything in Japan;
D) a plane can be seen making the hazardous approach to Hong Kong's old Kai Tak airport; and
E) the natural history museum in which the final fight takes place looks very much like an old British Imperial leftover.

2) I don't agree that the Major was never afraid in the original films or series. Psychopaths don't feel fear; professionals are simply better able to control it. Any rational person would be afraid facing off against that tank at the end of the first film. I do agree that her cyborg body probably wouldn't show that fear through involuntary muscle twitching the way a human body would. This is simply a problem with making a live action adaptation of this material: you put this character in the hands of a talented actress and say "she's afraid," and what do you expect the actress to do? Actresses are artists too, you have to give them something to work with. Ironically, Scarlett Johansson should have the complete skill set required for this role, based on her fine performances in "Under The Skin", "Her", and "Lucy", but given indifferent direction there's only so much she can do.

3) I completely agree that these trailers, and most probably the film, totally fail to capture the atmosphere of the original anime. The anime vividly depicted a future human society, while these trailers seem to show only a dour post-human wasteland one step removed from Zion in "The Matrix". I feel as though that's American pessimism about technology creeping in and leading to a total misreading/inability to understand the original material.

So I'm not looking forward to this film. It's one thing to wait one extra year for the American version of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" to come out because you don't want to read subtitles, but really, it's been twenty-one years, seventeen since "The Matrix", anyone remotely interested in "Ghost in the Shell" should have seen it by now (and given it's an animated film, it really doesn't matter that it's dubbed). What "groundbreaking" remake are they gonna do next, "Akira"? Sheesh.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by T-elos/Thurosis » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:00 pm

I do not want to offend anybody, I'm asian, so i know much about my culture, i'm not Japanese, but still know pretty much about them.
So i want to add on Karel opinion about japanese being flattered.
Of course they say "it's and honor" or "feel flattered" etc., it's because they do not want to be impolite. Because it is in their culture so, they rather suffer (bit) to keep being polite instead of becoming once impolite. That is one of the reason why the japanese are internationally known for being polite.

The next thing is about Design.
Up until today and i'm not even sure if i ever will understand this point.... BUT WHAT I GOODNESS NAME is damaged in most of these movie directors brain, when they are making adaptaions of Animes or Games?
I mean it isn't so that there are no references which they can look up/at.... I mean there are already all the designs how the cast should look like...
And don't make start ranting about Adaptations of Street Fighter (Still face palming about the fact that Chun-li is incapable of reading chinese in Legend of Chun-Li), Tekken, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan etc....
Of so many Adaptations was "World of WarCraft" the only adaptation which did not "suck" from A to Z.

As for remakes: I rather want to keep the good original in my mind instead of watching a remake where they screw up everything....
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by darkbutflashy » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:55 pm

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by samlincoln » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:07 pm

Thurosis is right on in his general opinion of Japanese culture. Although the younger generation is becoming more direct (thanks America) typical Japanese still do everything they can to maintain "social harmony" which means to always say what the listener wants to hear, even if they themselves have been slighted/insulted. This concept of "Tatemae" the side they show, contrasted to "Honne" one's true feelings/thoughts. Unless you know a Japanese person very closely, they will rarely if ever display "honne" to someone.
An example would be like you see your friend and they have the most ridiculous outfit on. Being polite, you say "wow what an interesting outfit? Trying a new look? Its great!" when inside you think they look like they have the fashion sense of Andre from"The League"

Try reading a scientific paper in Japanese... the author traditionally talks about everything EXCEPT their thesis! You're expected to figure out what is not said, and go from there.
So just imagine how a Japanese public relations supervisor/publicist would tackle this situation, knowing its very visible and has international implications.... "of course we're honored!" Just imagine what they're really thinking.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by darkbutflashy » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:55 pm

"wow what an interesting outfit? Trying a new look? Its great!"

And I thought white lies are prevalent in the U.S., too. :twisted:
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Karel » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:02 pm

T-elos/Thurosis, samlincoln, and darkbutflashy: point taken. I should have thought of that.

But that being said, just because the average Japanese will invariably say "it's an honor" or "I'm so flattered" or "What a good idea" to avoid seeming impolite when put on the spot doesn't mean that they're actually secretly seething with indignation, or that they really think it's a terrible idea to have ScarJo play Major Kusanagi in a Hollywood adaptation... particularly as they would have no qualms casting Japanese actors in Japanese remakes of Hollywood films. Last time I posted I wasn't able to point to examples of anything like this actually happening, but a quick search this time reveals two apparent recent remakes of American films from the 90s, "Ghost" and "Unforgiven" (the latter as a samurai film, natch):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost:_Mo ... kishimetai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven_(2013_film)

...very weirdly, I just realized, the lag time for all of these cross-cultural remakes ("Ghost," "Ghost in the Shell", and "Unforgiven") is approximately 20 years. Huh. So maybe my comment about how Hollywood has taken too long isn't fair either?

Anyway, I also doubt that the Japanese asked to assess the suitability of Johansson for the role secretly think it's a bad idea because Johansson is practically typecast for the role at this point (again, "Under the Skin," "Her," and "Lucy": if you combined her three characters from those films into one you'd basically have the Major in a nutshell). But the actors cast for the other roles may well be inappropriate...in fact I haven't checked them, because I suspect they probably are. Again, I don't have high hopes for this film: as far as I'm concerned, Johansson represents the only real hope that it has, and it looks as though she's been let down by the director.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Saya » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:02 am

So far, being a fan of the anime film and the two series, I have to say that I remain optimistic, but cautious.

I'm kind of a fan of Scarlet Johannsen, and not for the reasons one might naturally assume. I see her as a bit like Gerard Butler, in that she's quite multi-talented and does a good job of acting when the script allows her to, but frequently gets typecast into generic action roles (for those who don't believe me about the Gerard Butler thing, look up a film called Coriolanus, and even then just watch it because it's good). Originally, seeing shots of her with the Airse-style hair made me worry that it was going for an adaptation of that, but it looks like it will blend the styles of the various incarnations of the characters and the setting. I was terrified they might make ScarJo wear that ridiculous outfit the Major wore in S.A.C, but I'm glad to see they're taking cues from the original film for her wardrobe.

As far as the casting goes, a lot of it looks relatively good, all things considered. Nobody is going to look exactly like the characters they portray (it's a freakin' anime, for crying out loud), but for the most part the characters appear to be fairly consistent with their overall looks. A black version of Borma does not bother me all that much, as the character's race is a relatively minor detail. After all, remember that most of the characters are full-body conversion cyborgs. He could be portrayed by a woman and it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for the series. The only issue I have with his portrayal are the "eye prosthetics." I love practical effects as much as the next cinemaphile, but sometimes we have to accept that CGI is the better route for some things. I hope they are just a placeholder. The only real complaint I have about the cast is the actor portraying Togusa. Normally, age isn't a problem for me, but Togusa's age and relative inexperience are things that are central to his character, and make him a contrast to the older, combat-experienced group that is the rest of Section 9. My only explanation outside of casting preference towards the actor is that they wanted an older actor to make it more obvious that he's not a cyborg.

The only other major (haha) potential issue is the plot that they are going with. To say that the Laughing Man is one of the best and most iconic things to come out of S.A.C is a big understatement. Had they not appropriated the Guy Fawkes mask from V For Vendetta, I'm pretty sure Anonymous would be adopting that character's symbol. His storyline is a great example of writing and predictive foresight on the part of the writers (hacktivists were barely a blip in the public's eye when he was created) and it all leads up to a very, very tangled web indeed. This makes me wonder how they are going to adapt this to a 90-minute film without completely butchering the character. If they didn't want to just rehash the plot of the first film, they could have adapted the plot of 2nd GIG, which basically involved a rogue agent manipulating a terrorist group for his own ultranationalist ends, a plot which Hollywood used frequently in plenty of action films. Plus, just look at the guy and tell me he wouldn't be an easier villain to make a 90-minute film with.

So, yeah. Cautiously optimistic, but admittedly leaning more towards caution.
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:24 am

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Dolljoints » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:03 am

I like it a little bit more now.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by alex » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:14 pm

https://youtu.be/F5amv-vqUFo
First 2 minutes of the movie. Bootleg.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by FaceoffFembot » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:15 pm

Meh.

Visually, it seems to stick closely to what we've seen in GitS media before - robogeishas attack, free-falling near-naked from a building, birth of a cyborg, invisible canal fistfight - and what little it brings in photography and directing is really... kinda... ugly. Tokyo (if it's still Tokyo) looks very flat, the fights cookie-cutter, the weird parts are Hollywood's sterile and unimaginative idea of what a weird part is, and these giants holograms... Urgh.

But most of all, what I glean from this trailer is that they made the story very standard Hollywood. Whereas in Shirow's original works (and Oshii's movies and TV shows) full-body prostheses, cyberbrains, etc. are well-established, here, apparently, ScarJo is the first of her kind, and her being a full-body cyborg is a source of anguish and doubt instead of being just another way of living. This tale of betrayal and revenge with luddist undertones seem very at odd with the original works, yet wholly unoriginal for an American movie, and that they bought this fresh, daring and outside franchise only to make this sanitized product out of it bums me.

So I wasn't expecting anything from the movie, and I still am not.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by TheShoveller » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:33 pm

True, but you have to remember that even in several iterations of the series, Motoko being a full-body prosthetic is (or was) pretty unexplored territory. While heavily-augmented, even people like Batou have organic parts. Motoko is a brain, and... that's it. Of course, that could just be me trying to read more into that one line than they actually meant it as, but she's clearly fighting people who were augmented in some form but not actual full-body prosthetics - the only ones who were remotely like that were what I'm guessing are androids (the geishas.)

It's obviously changed and Hollywoodified some - I'll hate those aspects - but if it's more like... I'd say the first Resident Evil movie - where you can tell it's trying to stay true to it while doing its own take on things - and less like the later RE movies which went way off the rails, I'll probably like it well enough.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Saya » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:10 am

So, having seen the latest trailer, here are my thoughts:

Right off the bat, it seems that in general tone and setting, they are aiming more for the first film than they are for any of the other adaptations. Clearly, there are bits and pieces that are styled after other entries in the series--the robo-geishas in particular are a clear reference and nod to both Ghost In The Shell 2: Innocence and Stand Alone Complex--but overall the tone of the film seems to be going for that grittier cyberpunk style seen in the first animated film as opposed to the more contemporary style of S.A.C or the borderline surrealist style of Innocence. I actually appreciate that, as I am unsure how well either style would translate all that well to a Hollywood action film, but this is the sort of thing that Western live-action cinema has done well in the past.

The second thing that I notice is that there are some pretty big changes to the characters overall. At the risk of sounding placating, I don't find this a bad thing. A straight-up remake of the first film, with its heavy philosophical overtones mixed with jaw-dropping action, may not mesh well with Western audiences (or, perhaps more accurately, with producers). Is this to say that Western audiences are dumber? Not really. But it is important to remember that different audiences expect different things from their films. You can see this in adaptations of foreign-made films like Shin Godzilla or Hardcore Harry, where they do very well in their region of origin but get much less favorable reviews internationally. Plus, it will keep longtime fans of the series (myself included) guessing as to where the plot will take them. So, my advice would be to view it not as a remake or a sequel, but an adaptation. Something that a lot of fans I have spoken to seem quick to criticize.

Finally, remember that trailers at their best are often difficult to read, downright wrong at their worst when they showcase a film. I still remember what an utter fiasco the trailer to Pain & Gain was in completely warping the audience expectations, for example. I doubt it will be that bad here, but I personally hesitate to jump to any kind of concrete conclusion until the film comes out.
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Rotwang » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:44 pm

I'm also getting the "Robocop redux" vibe from the trailer. Seems Hollywood is dearly attached to the standard tropes to do anything groundbreaking ...

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by --NightBattery-- » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:10 pm

Do international peer review hard-science style japanese papers count? cause I can't tell they not being clear.
Heeheheheh.
I agree with Kishin'g.
if they even mention the word fembot or gynoid in that movie a lot of closet asfr fans will find their way here.
ghost in the shell is for some what westworld is for some veterans here.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:13 am

Rotwang wrote:I'm also getting the "Robocop redux" vibe from the trailer. Seems Hollywood is dearly attached to the standard tropes to do anything groundbreaking ...
Just dearly attached to the money. Nothing all that complicated. And, to the big budget feature film world... this is pretty unique. Even if it isn't to us.

They have to sell tickets to the people who mistake actors for their characters in real life as much as hardcore animé fans.
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:14 am

Kishin wrote:I don't care if they rehash every robot and cyborg themed thing from the 80s and 70s.
I'm happy with getting new robot and cyborg themed material at all!
The well was running dangerously dry there for a while!
THIS.
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by DocHoliday » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:41 pm

I agree, I'm just stoked for any fembot material. I wish this movie had live action operators!!

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by toysher » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:54 pm

Even if this movie becomes an excellent Android movie, I do not want to see this movie which is not faithful to the original and has the color of Hollywood.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by 33cl33 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:45 am

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