Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Devil » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:24 pm


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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Extyr » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:56 pm

So... did anyone see it? I'm kinda on the fence due to all the negative critics and I'd like you guys's opinion.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by TheShoveller » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:29 pm

I saw it and did a little thingy on another forum I frequent, I'll copy it over here:

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Ok, so saw this on Friday. My dad enjoyed it and thought it was a good movie, as someone who went in knowing nothing about Ghost in the Shell. And, if I didn't know anything about it, it'd probably also be good - but as a fan, it kinda sucked.

The whole thing is like a "greatest hits" of popular scenes from various Ghost in the Shell-related media over the years - which is awesome - except they take a few things out of context in order to have a setup for the particular scene they're re-enacting.

For example - anyone who's ever seen the original movie will remember the scene with the two garbage men. The setup, for anyone who doesn't know it, is two garbage men, during their daily morning pickup route, are hacking a high-ranking government official. The one guy believes his wife is cheating on him and that's why she kicked him out of their house and won't let him see his daughter. So, while at a bar telling his sob story, someone overheard and offered to help him out by showing him how to ghost-hack his wife to find out for sure if she's cheating on him and possibly help get custody of his kid. So, the "helpful friend" went around to pay phones on the route, stashed the stuff the guy would need on his route to hack his wife, and then the garbage guy would perform the hack while his partner grabbed the trash at the routine stop. They get caught, and the garbage guy proceeds to drive the truck like a maniac to warn his "friend" that they're onto him. The "friend" has a high-power machine gun and a therm-optic coat that lets him turn invisible - high-end military shit. A chase ensues, and the final showdown with the real hacker happens in a shallow drainage pool between him and the Major, who also has therm-optic camouflage. It turns out that not only was the garbage guy hacked and had false memories implanted of him having a wife and kid (he didn't, he was single and never married) but the hacker also had false memories implanted in him, leaving an odd thread of "who's really pulling the strings here" that they then pursue.

Now, the scene in the movie, in order to recreate it, they used two garbage guys who were talking about the one guy's wife for all of maybe ten seconds before they clearly get hacked, drive their truck into a car, and proceed to get out and have a shootout with the guards and Section 9 who show up later. One's taken down, the other has a therm-optic cloak, and the rest of that scene plays out much like the animated movie - fight in a shallow drainage pool against an invisible Major. Same thing where the garbage guy believes he has a wife and kid but had false memories implanted in his head.

Now, a few things about this - these are garbage men. Why the fuck do they have machine guns with them? Why the fuck does one have a high-end military therm-optic coat? And why the fuck would one have false memories implanted in him and then still be hacked into doing things like a remote-controlled puppet - what was the point of having false memories, then?

So, like I said, they recreate the scene, but out-of-context, so it loses quite a bit. And when you analyze it a bit more, holes pop up - like how these were apparently the James Bond of garbage collection workers for no apparent reason, and they had false memories implanted for no reason when the big bad guy was just going to telepuppet them, anyway.


Glanced at a review before seeing it, and the biggest complaint about it was "evil, evil white-washing!" when, honestly, it'd be Westernization over white-washing (as even black people had roles in Section 9, which were all Japanese in the source material, and who were woefully underutilized I feel in the movie.) Plus, another odd thing about it, Chief Aramaki is the only person in the entire movie - literally the only one - who speaks nothing but Japanese and never breaks from that to English at any point, much how everyone else in the movie - including the doctor who clearly has a French accent - never breaks from English. If they were trying to sell the "cyberbrains let you understand each other beyond language barriers" thing then they screwed the pooch by not having any other languages spoken by any other people.


So overall verdict - it's all flash, with little substance. As a movie on its own, probably a good 3 or 4 out of 5. As a fan of Ghost in the Shell, though, it's a solid 2, 2.5. No mention of attack barriers, stuff taken out of context in odd ways, underutilization of the full Section 9 team, and some really, really odd decisions on certain aspects.

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As for "fembot-related stuff" that would be more appropriate, there's a scene where she's "under repairs" (you can see a brief portion of it in one of the trailers - basic premise is a bomb goes off and she "took the brunt of it") as well as another scene where part of her face comes off - again, something you'd see in the trailers. The only thing that's not in the trailers that's along those same lines is the classic "pull so hard on this armored thing my arms rip off" bit which is fairly brief. And, of course, the "construction" bit that's an attempt at the original opening credits scene in the original animated movie.

If you know nothing of Ghost in the Shell beyond "it has fembots and cyborgs!" then you might like it. If you like Ghost in the Shell, it's a shell of the source material (pun totally intended.)

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Rotwang » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:40 pm

My guess is that much of the movie ended up on the cutting room floor. There are more than a few scenes where they went nowhere or that raised serious questions.

1) Where did Kuze get all those henchmen ? He had to hack the garbage guy into believing he had a wife, but he had a fully equipped hit squad at his beck and call.
2) Why was the hacking robot suddenly afraid for her "life" ? In the manga there was a story where they hacked kid's ghosts to make robot AI, but the kids were able to get in kill commands so that people would investigate the robots.
3) The whole Japanese mother scene felt very awkward as if huge chunks were missing.

I think GITS fails because they tried to get in all the pretty pictures from the anime and then failed to pace their own story ideas, lingering for far too long on certain details, while omitting others.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Chise » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:48 pm

I agree with Rotwang. It looks like the whole "upload consciousness to the net" plot point which was barely touched on by Kuze hit the cutting room floor. The geisha scene begging for her life was not addressed at all. Seemed like that was a plot point that would have linked with the fate of the other 'volunteers' of project 2571.

The garbage men having camo and weapons could be explained by them having picked them up from being hacked in the past, but that was poorly handled. It's like they took the most iconic scenes from the 1995 movie and tried to shoehorn them all into the movie. It shouldn't take long for side-by-side videos to pop up. Almost all the good scenes were exact copies from the 1995 anime, down to the camera angles.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by TheShoveller » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:46 pm

They tried to copy a few other scenes as well - for example, the first "briefing" where they were all in the room with the holographic display was essentially ripped from Arise, where Kusanagi would "host" people in her lobby and go over the briefings there. Also little nods with the outfits she wore at various times - some were from the original movie, some were from Stand Alone Complex, some were from Arise (i.e. the red leather outfit she wore when she went into the club,) etc.

I also don't think most of the plot points are on the cutting room floor - I think they honestly, legitimately missed the point of some of them.

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Saya » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Oh my, the last time someone posted a comment here was about four months ago! So, why am I posting my own review here?

Because I want to. S-Shut up, you.

But hey, seriously, in all honesty, it's because I said some stuff here, finally got a chance to see it, and now I can tell you what I thought about it. I tried to keep an open mind about it back in the beginning, when people were talking about how awful it was going to be back before the film even properly came out. And while it is a little late to do a comprehensive review, I figure...what the heck. I have nothing to lose but my chains. And possibly your respect.

So, in the name of taking a novel approach to something, I've decided to review it as a fan of GitS, a fan of movies, and as a technosexual. So, let's get on with this novel(length) review!

As a Ghost in the Shell Fan

So of course, stepping into this as a fan of the films and the series, as well as having read most of the Shirow manga, I came into this with guarded expectations. I didn't really expect anything great, but at the same time, I wasn't ready to dismiss it outright. In fact, if anything, when I saw what ScarJo was wearing as Motoko, I was relieved to see that they were taking cues from Arise and the first film, as opposed to Stand Alone Complex's Motoko. And yes, I know she isn't called Motoko in the film, but we all know that's who she is as "the Major". But that leads us to our first major issue with the film as far as it's appreciation of the fandom.

This movie is loaded with little nods to the GitS canon. Everything from the diving scene in the first film, to the robot-pathologist in Innocence to Motoko's Arise-inspired decor when she's visiting the Yakuza club. But the problem with these references is that they take up most of the film. Almost everything else in the film is lifted from some other part of the canon, and it starts to go from "respectful nod to the fans" to "desperate fan pandering". At times, it feels less like a proper film, and more like a strung-together series of nods to GitS' canon, briefly interrupted by bits of a thoroughly uninteresting, derivative story. And plenty of times, these are done at the expense of the plot. For instance, why is not-Motoko called "the Major" if she's the end result of a corporate project? The Major's nickname is a reference to her service for the Japanese Self-Defense Force, which is one of the few constants between her character. Why, then, is she called that here? It's never explained, other than as an example of one of the film's forced references. As different as the various depictions of the GitS universe can be, they at least try to be unique, as opposed to empty imitations of earlier works.

So, what's the biggest problem with the film, in terms of its service (or disservice) to the fans of the franchise? Well, it isn't the fact that it changes the story or the characters. Honestly, I'm fine with that. What a few people tend to forget is that GitS has no less than four separate canons. The Shirow mangas, the first film and Innocence, Stand Alone Complex and its film, Solid State Society and the Arise mini-series. So, changes and alterations to the characters aren't that big of a deal, or shouldn't be, to fans of the canon.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is the way that the film handles Section 9. For fans of the series, they know that for the most part, Section 9 is integral to the plot. Almost every awesome thing that Motoko does is in some way aided by members of her team. Ishikawa hacking the enemy's systems, Togusa getting information from his police contacts, Saito providing sniper support, Batou being Motoko's ever-present backup and Chief Aramaki tying the team together, giving them orders and protecting the team politically. But here, they're just...there. Batou is present, but he's hardly effective backup. If anything, he's a hindrance. When he's not doing anything effective, he fails to provide the Major any kind of backup. Most blatantly when the Major is being tortured in the back of the Yakuza bar and Batou does damn near nothing to help, even after it's obvious something's wrong. Togusa, Ishikawa? Just guys in the background holding guns. Perhaps the worst offender, however, is Aramaki. All credit to his actor, the legendary Takeshi "Beat" Kitano, who has a record of playing understated badasses, but Aramaki's presence here is effectively a living prop for the first two thirds of the movie. And when he does do something, it seems strikingly out of character. Section 9 does not feel like the well-oiled team it was in Stand Alone Complex, Arise or even the first animated film, they're just extras for the most part.

So. It strikes out on the canon nod aspect. How about as a film?

As a Film Fan

...Hoo boy.

So, let's talk about the elephant in the room. Accusations of "whitewashing" followed this movie since it was first announced that Scarlet Johansson was announced to play the Major, there were accusations of all kinds that it was another example of Hollywood race-lifting and whitewashing characters. And to be honest with you, it's difficult to tell, because the vast majority of characters are written flatly. Ghost in the Shell is an effects film. It's a prop film. It's about CGI spider-tanks, it's about giant hologaphic adverts ripped straight from Blade Runner and it's about the Major's cyborg parts. There's nothing wrong with a good effects film, but when it is tied to a series that blends action with high-minded philosophy and strong characterization, we aren't off to a good start. And especially so with the accusations of bias flying around. Yes, make no mistake. The white characters do get the strongest characterization here, but in this film, it hardly matters, because everyone is watered down and nondescript. Especially when it comes to characters original to the film.

Take, for instance, the villain. Imaginatively named "Cutter", he's the head of Hanka Robotics, the generic evil corporation that's silhouette labeled number "1" in your standard "Paint By Numbers: Cyberpunk Story" package. At no point at all did I feel invested with him. Kuze, the supposed bad guy, who we all know as an underground hacker (becoming a blend of the anime Kuze and the best "villain" in any of the adaptations, The Laughing Man) will turn out to be the good guy after all, takes most of the attention, and Cutter as a consequence just becomes a guy in a black suit, with black hair, who does evil things because he wants to make the Major a weapon, whose only standout feature is cybernetic heterochromia, which isn't that much of a stand-out feature when you sit back and realize it's the cyberpunk version of wearing an eyepatch. I didn't cheer when he died, because it felt like someone shooting a cardboard cutout.

As far as the plot goes? The 40% or so that isn't a reference to one of the other, superior films is an unabashed knock-off of Robocop. An amoral corporation creates a cybernetic law-enforcer who they intend to use as a piece of equipment, but starts to retain her humanity and eventually discovers the truth of what they did to him/her, fighting back against said amoral corporation. That's it. There's no real nuance here, nothing you don't see coming a mile away.

So, what about those effects? At times, they're spectacular. Other times, they're a visual irritant. Future Non-Descript-City is so loaded with giant, distracting holographic adverts, it's a wonder half the city hasn't died in flaming car wrecks by the time we start the film. The major's optical camo looks great, and the geisha-bots are probably one of the film's stand-out examples of blending CGI and practical effects. But, unfortunately, that's all we really get. The scene where Motoko looks through a building to find her targets is an obvious...let's be generous and call it a pastiche, of the echolocation scene in The Dark Knight. The hacking scene is generic. The film's spider tank is...underwhelming. The effects are hit-and-miss in an effects film. That's pretty bad.

As A Technosexual

It's great, if you're just looking for sexy robot bits. ScarJo's Motoko starts off with an awesome shot of her cybernetic body getting made and there are plenty of scenes of damage, disassembly and repair. She malfunctions a little when hit by a taser, but it's just twitches and what not. And there's an awesome scene where Kuze casually disconnects part of her face to show the underlying mechanisms.

...So yeah, good job there, film.

In Summation:

The live action Ghost in the Shell is worse than a bad movie. It's a generic movie. It's an effects movie with effects ranging from great to ho-hum, a plot that ranges from ho-hum to bad, and glaring issues integrating canon to the plot. Worst of all for us GitS fans, this will assuredly kill any chance we have of seeing a good, Western adaptation of the series'. Which wasn't exactly critical, but it would have been nice to allow us Westerners to show our appreciation for one of the most influential science fiction franchises. As someone else put it, it's "all flash and no substance."

Or, as I might put it "it's a shell without a ghost."

...Hehe...see what I did there?
"If the time should ever come when what is now called science, thus familiarized to men, shall be ready to put on, as it were, a form of flesh and blood, the Poet will lend his divine spirit to aid the transfiguration, and will welcome the Being thus produced, as a dear and genuine inmate of the household of man."
- William Wordsworth

--NightBattery--

Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by --NightBattery-- » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:22 am

Saya's GITS Movie review
Saya wrote: As a Ghost in the Shell Fan
Image
As a Film Fan
Image
As A Technosexual
Image
In Summation:
Image
Sorry, I couldn't help myself~
sweet review by the by
(goes back to procrastinating )

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Saya » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:43 pm

--Battery-- wrote:Saya's GITS Movie review
Saya wrote: As a Ghost in the Shell Fan
Image
As a Film Fan
Image
As A Technosexual
Image
In Summation:
Image
Sorry, I couldn't help myself~
sweet review by the by
(goes back to procrastinating )
<3 You summed it up better than I did!

Thanks, Robotman! I pride myself on my ability to review things : D

But in all seriousness, to those who want to see the original film, you can check it and Stand Alone Complex out on Hulu.
"If the time should ever come when what is now called science, thus familiarized to men, shall be ready to put on, as it were, a form of flesh and blood, the Poet will lend his divine spirit to aid the transfiguration, and will welcome the Being thus produced, as a dear and genuine inmate of the household of man."
- William Wordsworth

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Re: Ghost in the Shell (Live Action)

Post by Guderian34 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:57 pm

Nailed it

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