AMC's "Humans"

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AMC's "Humans"

Post by 33cl33 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:15 am

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by TheSpotConlon » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:39 am

My first thought was "they nailed it!" until I realized the first picture was from the Swedish version.

Gemma Chan is quite good, but she looks too human in the promotional photo. HuBots look a little off, like their skin is too rubbery to be exactly human, so I hope that detail carries over to these Synths. The pedigree behind the series is good; I can imagine a network like NBC cocking this project up from beginning to mercifully short end.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by 33cl33 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:19 pm

Then I suppose it's good that NBC has nothing to do with the show.
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by dale coba » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 pm

33cl33 wrote:Then I suppose it's good that NBC has nothing to do with the show.
Or CBS or ABC or USA or The CW or FOX (Full Of eXpletive).

IMO, you want HBO, SHOtime, AMC, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, maybe the Sci-fi Channel, possibly FX.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by jolshefsky » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:10 am

So they're called "Synths" in AMC's version. ... so I guess Lennart's character will be known as "Synth-pop".
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by dale coba » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:28 am

Not yet.
Now conveniently on the FTP.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by ministrations » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:08 am

SPOILER ALERT

I don't mean to always be the pessimist around here but the first episode was definitely less impressive than the original.

1. The biggest problem is that they're already killing off characters and conflating storylines. Niska is also Flash, which is problematic for me because Niska's storyline was one of the best parts of the Swedish series. She showed repeatedly that she was perfectly capable of leading the group on her own, but was loyal to Leo for reasons that a human would be loyal to Leo; I think that adds something that the English series so far lacks. Also, no group; that's already basically dead.

I hope Bea isn't the "mysterious old cop" investigating the runaway synths, because there's only one now, and he's a man. Bea could potentially be the other cop's partner, that other cop now being also the Roger character. Also a big question mark there, as Roger's meltdown while being replaced at the factory was one of the more dramatically on point, if not entertaining, parts of the original show.

2. The Lennart story was too prominent in the original series, and not just because there wasn't a young, attractive fembot in it. They appear to be maintaining it, if not actually expanding it, while also cutting off the one reason the Swedish series gave us for why his story was relevant (he was Inger's father and George is not Laura's). Also, I'm not sure I'm going to buy the Rt. Hon. Nicola Murray as a robot no matter how well she acts the part. Bad casting.

3. The new show, in killing off the runaway group idea, also appears to have done away with the idea that the Eischer/Elster code can be bypassed as it was with Anita in the original show. So Anita is pretending to be servile instead of reprogrammed. I'm more ambivalent than negative at the moment, but I have a feeling I'm not going to like where that takes her story over 10 or 13 episodes.

4. I'm far less ambivalent about Laura. Inger was consistent; she was not only a foil to Hans, who saw Anita only as a machine, but also tried to get everyone to treat Anita like a person even though she didn't know Anita/Mimi was a person. It was a good idea. Laura, on the other hand, makes some broad swiping movements in the dark about being moral, but then quickly falls in with treating Anita like a slave, made worse by the fact that Anita is Mia from the jump.

5. And then Laura gets paranoid about Anita, as if they're incorporating the story of the pastor's wife into Laura's story. AND THEN they justify that paranoia with the ending. It's just more soap opera construction than a living, breathing three-dimensional drama.

6. They're already desexualizing all the robots. I know it's not Sweden; I'm not expecting nudity. But if you go to a robot brothel, you should find a range of body types, not just mid-20s, 5'7", 34B. Bea is very likely an older man, if that character even exists. Even Simon is far less attractive than Rick was. They're falling into the Almost Human trap of knowing that sex is no-go, but then even chickening out of admitting that there will be fetishization and niche in a world with robots. The Swedish series did a pretty good job of not falling into this trap.

7. And they're making icky sexual excuses for all the main characters. Therese/Jill is now going to fall in love with Simon/Rick because the accident. Of course! Who would ever expect her husband to touch her in her damaged state? Also, Laura and Joe are having marital problems, which might very well drive Joe into Anita's arms (assuming she has functioning arms after this episode)...which is very different from Hans, who seemed to be tempted by Anita's adult options out of pure curiosity, and then fights off the urge because he's an adult, contrasting with Tobbe who had to suffer through his own adolescent feelings for Anita.

I know it's early and this kind of analysis should really wait until after the season is over. But the season is already shot, and if all the stories play out like I think they will, I will be stunned by the number of poor decisions C4/AMC have made.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Spaz » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:04 am

Screencaps will be up later today...
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by 33cl33 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:05 pm

I already screencapped the hell out of it - unless you still want to go ahead, Spaz, I just need to upload them.
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Spaz » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:19 pm

Go for it, I'm still working on Dark Matter. I was hoping a higher quality download of the Humans episode would appear though....
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by 33cl33 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:23 pm

I found a super 1080p version via KAT.
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Spaz » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:24 pm

Excellent, can't wait to see the screencaps! I got the page ready for you.
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by 33cl33 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:59 pm

Posted!
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by dale coba » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:15 am

Is it worth it for FTP users if I add a 3gb version?

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Spaz » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:18 am

HD is always better, in my opinion.
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Karel » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:26 pm

ministrations wrote:SPOILER ALERT

I know it's early and this kind of analysis should really wait until after the season is over. But the season is already shot, and if all the stories play out like I think they will, I will be stunned by the number of poor decisions C4/AMC have made.
Eeh... I won't exactly be "stunned." Having finally had the opportunity to start watching the English series, I can't even really say I'm surprised. So far, this is an absolutely typical phoned-in Channel 4 genre series ("Primeval," anyone?). Slapping "AMC" on it is a bad joke. AMC was borderline unwatchable before they somehow lucked into "Breaking Bad" and "Mad Men" (hey, let's watch "Platoon" again! For the third time this week! With all of the swearing and violence cut out! Plus commercials!), and if they're willing to lend their brand to middling stuff like this they'll soon be unwatchable again.

Half the appeal of the original series, which could hardly be said to have broken new ground so far as this kind of subject matter was concerned, lay simply in the fact that, being Swedish, it seemed like a breath of fresh air. It really was a fresh cultural perspective on this kind of material. I said to people before in talking about the series that the aesthetics of the robots was very "IKEA," and the way that this polite European society dealt with having the things around, the way their very presence seemed corrosive of what might otherwise have been a well-ordered culture, created a sick sense of unease in the viewer that really enhanced the story.

Here? Well, we know how the English would react to having these robots around, don't we: they'd incorporate them the same way that they have motorcars, fast food, and CCTV, and just as much to their detriment.

So, story wise, I'm not expecting much. Hell, even the Swedish series lost me in the second season; the story became too convoluted and seemed to lose any focus it might have had in the first.
Last edited by Karel on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by dale coba » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:52 pm

Everyone should feel free to keep the sound off, and make up better dialogue.

;)

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Karel » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:48 pm

Edit: okay...spoilers...yeah, it's pretty bad. I second ministrations main points, and would even go further.

As ministrations pointed out, the combination of Niska with Flash is...rather incomprehensible, frankly. There's effectively no Niska now, and ministrations is right, Eva Rose really was one of the best things about the first Swedish season. To my mind, moreover, the original Niska was good for the same reason that the original Bea was good: they lined the uncanny valley with teeth. They both acted in clearly menacing and inhuman ways that the audience struggled to reconcile even with their need for survival. Among the many ways in which the opening to this new series was botched (in terms of pacing, sequence, introduction of the characters, etc.), the most glaring omission is obviously that it does not open with one of the main characters we're supposed to be following brutally murdering a bound and defenseless old couple. Somebody chickened out on that one!

No Niska is one thing: no Bea would be criminal. What would even be the point of watching the show? Though as I said I sadly lost interest in the Swedish series during the second season, I have to admit that Bea scared the hell out of me in the first! She was so obviously inhuman: the tear gas capsule in the mouth, spat into her partner's face, the condom stuffed down her throat, the scanning motion that she made with her eyes during the break-in in the penultimate episode. When I realized that she was just driven by some algorithm of pure self-interest, after having previously felt real sympathy for her, I got shivers down my spine.

The new Niska/Flash brothel interlude, and the line about "the things your men do to us," is positively ridiculous. The characters are robots. Niska and Bea in the original had no hang-ups whatsoever about sexuality: why should they? Bea in particular made gruesome use of a completely detached and utilitarian sexuality against humans who she wanted to manipulate (the fellatio scene in the second season? Ouch). I didn't even get the sense that Flash had these hang-ups in the original. Flash seemed motivated by a delusional fairy tale vision wherein some Prince Charming would sweep her off her feet, take her to his castle, and make her a real girl. Sex didn't seem to be at the fore of this vision: it was more aesthetic. I got the sense that she would have used sex in the same utilitarian way, without disgust, to get what she wanted.

This idea that the new Niska/Flash is horribly traumatized by these rapes that she's willingly allowed herself to endure is PC masochism run amok. It''s entirely inappropriate and doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, nor does it further the story, nor does it say anything new or original or meaningful or purposive. Yes, if a real woman was trapped in a brothel and treated like that and periodically hosed down, they'd be in hell. What an amazing insight! But why should a robot, even an intelligent one, object to the weird bodily impulses of us meat sacks, save out of boredom? How come Anita (as seems to be the case in the new series) is able to bear the inhuman rigours of a completely feigned servility so well if these robots are emotionally identical to humans, which is what the lazy, thoughtless writers seem to be assuming?

Why is someone giving announcements over a loudspeaker to the robots in the brothel, telling them to "go here, do that" or announcing that a customer is scheduled? Why would a customer be scheduled? Have to be scheduled? I mean, can't they just go in, browse, pick one? Wouldn't the robots simply be programmed to fulfill all the necessary tasks and be in the right place at the right time without the need for a human on a PA system to be constantly updating them and telling them what to do? Wouldn't all the updates just be handled wirelessly? It's utterly thoughtless and asinine.

Finally, no Roger? I beg to differ from ministrations here: Roger's story in the original was wickedly entertaining. Uncomfortable as hell to watch, but wickedly entertaining! The lone wolf white male, seething with quiet rage, abandoned by a wife shacking up with a machine, his kid taken away from him, put out of work by automation: I have to think that the producers thought that this guy's story was just too much of a lightning rod. Too many guys know exactly what that's like. So this omission is really contemptible. It reminds me of the original "Traffic" mini-series, which had as its characters a politician, the wife of a drug lord, a narcotics cop, and a desperate Pakistani poppy farmer just trying to provide a better life for his family. When it came time to put this on the big screen in the U.S., well, Hollywood couldn't have that, so instead we got a politician, the wife of a drug lord, a narcotics cop, and... a Mexican narcotics cop. Because anyone who has anything to do with drugs, wherever they may be and whatever their circumstances, is the devil, don't you know.

So clearly, we can't possibly be induced to sympathize with this brooding bear of a white working class male (who, as all right-thinking people know, is the lowest kind of scum). Even though it was awesome watching Roger smash some hubots, blow s__t up, and bond with his stepson while surviving a horrific near death experience (not to mention finally getting one over on the narcissistic ex-wife). In fact, any sense of unease over the robots putting anybody out of work, a deeply uncomfortable subject broached openly and honestly in Swedish series, seems to have been entirely excised! All of the opposition to the robots so far has been (half-baked) moral and cultural, nothing economic. Has anyone even mentioned it?

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by ministrations » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:28 am

Thank you! You were very kind, but you also gave an eloquence to your post that mine lacked.

MORE SPOILERS
Karel wrote: the combination of Niska with Flash is...rather incomprehensible, frankly. ... No Niska is one thing: no Bea would be criminal. What would even be the point of watching the show?
What really impresses me is that they now seem to be setting her up to be Niska AND Flash AND Bea. (The old man may still turn out to be a robot, but I think Niska is going to end up with the Rogercop character.) They had to have more money than the SVT production...right? Why does it look like they're cutting every available corner?
Karel wrote: The new Niska/Flash brothel interlude, and the line about "the things your men do to us," is positively ridiculous. The characters are robots. Niska and Bea in the original had no hang-ups whatsoever about sexuality: why should they?
The brothel scenes had a couple of up points, but on the whole it was baffling. I understand the throwaway scene at the end of the first episode, but did the next patron really have to be a pedophile? And how did he go from shy to thrill killer in ten seconds? Is there anything else the producers could have done to make it more obvious where they want our sympathy?
One, I think there will undoubtedly be restrictions on that kind of activity in the future, even in a seedy East End robobrothel. Two, as you said, Karel, I don't know what they were trying to do, even potentially, that would have improved on the same scene in the original, where he wasn't a pedo or nearly as evil; there was still karma, as he died, just not then and there; and they didn't soil a main character to carry out their point.
Finally, one really selfish request: can there be one scene in a mainstream production, once, where a genuinely nice person goes into that situation, has a mindblowing time (shown or implied), and they don't cut away, cockblock him/her, turn him/her (or the robot) into a secret murderer, or make him/her into the unwitting accessory to some crime? The first movie of which I am aware that had a scene like this was Westworld, AND IT WAS EXACTLY THAT. A straightforward, slightly eerie sex scene. Forty-three years later and we're still waiting for scene no. 2? That's not cool.
Karel wrote: How come Anita (as seems to be the case in the new series) is able to bear the inhuman rigours of a completely feigned servility so well if these robots are emotionally identical to humans, which is what the lazy, thoughtless writers seem to be assuming?
Bad writing. The problem with so many shows and movies these days, but especially in sci-fi, is that they're not telling stories, but parables. The story becomes inconsistent because the producers are trying so hard to Say Something that everything else -- character development, continuity, plot progression, the moral ambiguity and suspense of a good story -- take a distant back seat.
The Swedish series, at least the first one, wasn't hampered by that. Because they were just trying to tell a story, the characters and their actions and motivations were able to stay consistent to each other as well as the story itself. And ironically, the incidental real-life statements it made were deeper and more effective than the show that's trying to teach us those same lessons at gunpoint.
Karel wrote: Finally, no Roger? I beg to differ from ministrations here: Roger's story in the original was wickedly entertaining. Uncomfortable as hell to watch, but wickedly entertaining!


I was too distraught by his storyline to be entertained, in a popcorn way, but I disagree with you not one bit: Roger's story in the original was great. I still think there's a possibility that Rogercop, the guy from 8 Out of 10 Cats, could turn out to be pretty good. We'll see.
Karel wrote:In fact, any sense of unease over the robots putting anybody out of work, a deeply uncomfortable subject broached openly and honestly in Swedish series, seems to have been entirely excised! All of the opposition to the robots so far has been (half-baked) moral and cultural, nothing economic. Has anyone even mentioned it?
Well, they're being pretty heavy-handed about the daughter acting out because of her fears of not having a future. Now personally, I think the daughter is the most promising thing the show has right now, and not just because I thought the daughter on the original was kind of a warm body. It depends on how they develop her secret interest in robots...but if she turns out to be the activist bomber, I give up.
The other thing that does hold promise is whatever happened in Leeds...I imagine it involves a synth, but other than a one-night stand affair, I don't know what it could be. But there is at least the opportunity for creativity there.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by jolshefsky » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:08 am

Karel wrote:The new Niska/Flash brothel interlude, and the line about "the things your men do to us," is positively ridiculous. The characters are robots. Niska and Bea in the original had no hang-ups whatsoever about sexuality: why should they? Bea in particular made gruesome use of a completely detached and utilitarian sexuality against humans who she wanted to manipulate (the fellatio scene in the second season? Ouch). I didn't even get the sense that Flash had these hang-ups in the original. Flash seemed motivated by a delusional fairy tale vision wherein some Prince Charming would sweep her off her feet, take her to his castle, and make her a real girl. Sex didn't seem to be at the fore of this vision: it was more aesthetic. I got the sense that she would have used sex in the same utilitarian way, without disgust, to get what she wanted.
The way this NiskaFlash scene plays out, it smacks of lazy writing ...
MALE WRITER 1: "So we need to show that NiskaFlash isn't just a robot, but has some kind of humanity in her."
(The other 5 writers sit in feigned thought. MALE WRITER 2 taps his pencil eraser against his lip while staring at the corner of the ceiling with a furrowed brow. A full minute passes.)
MALE WRITER 3: "Oh, I know! If someone rapes her and she cries, then it'll be clear."
MALE WRITER 1: "Ok, good ... any other ideas?"
(More silence.)
MALE WRITER 2: "What if she freaks out at a pedophile? Women love children, amIright?"
MALE WRITER 4: "... but not in that way!"
(The group laughs heartily.
It appears the rest of the show is just as awful.

Another thing (SPOILERS) is how Dr. George Millican appears to be both Lennart and David–he mentions something about him having made the "original designs" of the synths. This seems like a terrible choice. Lennart and Odi's relationship was interesting, and David was, well, quite off his rocker–certainly not two characters I'd mash together.
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A prominent 41 is very unlucky in: AMC's "Humans"

Post by dale coba » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:29 am

Image

Image

Image
I believe I can read numbers 124, 47, and 13.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by ministrations » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:22 am

Kishin wrote: Now with Humans being so poorly produced, the execs at HBO might just toss Westworld based on the numbers Humans does.
You know what I think is funny about that? The audience is there. The first Humans episode broke records for Channel 4. Sarah Connor had 18.6 million viewers for its pilot. Almost Human started with 12 million and kept surprisingly decent numbers through a whole season, despite a shit storyline. They all leave.

I don't know if you feel this way about the Walking Dead, Kishin, because I don't watch it. But who wants to watch a show that looks like it's tripping over itself to pull punches? The pilots almost always paint a world where these essentially superhuman beings are disrupting everything, creating all kinds of opportunity for smartly written, nontraditional action and sex, and then the creators appear to spend the rest of the series avoiding actually writing any of those scenes.

I firmly believe that a show that dares to go Full Robot would have a considerable audience. Maybe it wouldn't have a 10-year run, but it might have four or five solid seasons. Maybe Westworld is that show; I'm skeptical at this stage.

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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by N6688 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Karel wrote:This idea that the new Niska/Flash is horribly traumatized by these rapes that she's willingly allowed herself to endure is PC masochism run amok
Well in this version it seems that the "synths" are a LOT more human than the swedish versions.
They are more lead by their emotions than the hubots of akta maniksor.
The hubots in akta maniksor are self aware but not overly emotional.
Karel wrote:Finally, no Roger?
well it seems that they combined Ove/roger into D.S. Pete Drummond (the male cop with the 90's glasses)
he does share that same "wife has a sexy hubot and he hates that" backstory
Karel wrote:No Niska is one thing: no Bea would be criminal.
There is a bea and its DI Karen Voss.
"Robot wives have needs, too"
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by Karel » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:23 pm

N6688 wrote:There is a bea and its DI Karen Voss.
That remains to be seen. It could be that, as you say, the synths here are just "more emotional" and that's why I'm getting no kind of "I'm a robot" vibe from her... or it could be that we're screwed, given Niska/Flash's physical resemblance to the original Bea. The original walked an almost perfect line: there was something "off" about Bea before the big reveal, but I was still taken aback when she turned out to be a hubot.

You know, I've been self-deprecating in the past whenever I mention enjoying the first season of the original show to people not on this forum, but looking back now, and comparing it to this one in particular... I have to say that my insecurity is unjustified. It really was quite spectacularly well done. It's just a shame that it appears to have been a one-season wonder like "Heroes" or "Homeland" (I stopped watching "Homeland" after the first season, as I knew it couldn't possibly top that performance in the second. Should've done the same with "Akta Manniskor").
ministrations wrote: They had to have more money than the SVT production...right? Why does it look like they're cutting every available corner?
I'm actually not at all sure about that. Like I said, I'm not really seeing the "AMC" part of this production. Did AMC get William Hurt on board? Because if they did that's just criminal: anything else he could have been doing in that time would have been better. But other than that, this seems like Channel 4 all the way. SVT is a public broadcaster in a country with lavish levels of public spending: Channel 4 is a private TV station in the UK that has to compete against the BBC by running appalling dreck like "Primeval" against the latter's "Doctor Who". Cost control is probably the order of the day.

Moreover, even if SVT and C4 had the same amount of money, I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that it's budgeted very differently. The primary focus of this kind of public arts funding outside the United States seems to be to put local actors to work speaking the local language: without state support of small language markets everything would just be in English. A cast of thousands becomes a selling point to the bureaucrats holding the public purse. But most English speaking markets seem to treat actors like liabilities. The money goes into awful CGI instead (again, see "Primeval". It's really bad!), or maybe it just disappears into some producer's pocket.

ministrations
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Re: AMC's "Humans"

Post by ministrations » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:45 pm

N6688 wrote: There is a bea and its DI Karen Voss.
I liked that one moment where she seemed to be blank...but if that's true, now what? Is she going to shack up with Pete? That was without qualification the best surprise of the first Swedish season, that Roger fell in love with Bea thinking she was a human, and then when she revealed her true nature he couldn't put his feelings down. I certainly hope that translates to the new show.
Karel wrote: A cast of thousands becomes a selling point to the bureaucrats holding the public purse. But most English speaking markets seem to treat actors like liabilities.
But they got William Hurt. They got Katherine Parkinson. They got Rebecca Front. They got Gemma Chan. And others... I know they're not really household names in the US, except for Hurt, but they're fairly well known in England and I don't think they were cheap. I'm not disagreeing with you, but if they had to cut important characters to make payroll, I wish they had gone with a few more unknowns.

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