WESTWORLD IS BACK

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Trace Venom » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:11 am

Evan Rachel Wood dated Manson for a few years, and was even engaged to him at one point, so it's likely that it's her.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Karel » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:25 pm

Having now seen the final episode of the season, I feel comfortable revising my preliminary verdict on the show. Westworld isn't just good, it's great.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by NukuNookee » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:04 am

Loved the Delores assembly/activation scene at the beginning of the finale... very well done CG. And the ending... I was expecting it to go all Westworld, but not the way it did... :)
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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by 33cl33 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:43 am

That's some damn fine TV, right there. Half saw it coming, but again, not like THAT. Stay after the credits for a little extra.
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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by lucas » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:21 am

i see that episodes and will said something on my vision that are uselesses to me and not motived me

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by 33cl33 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:15 am

Kishin wrote: Gaaaah! Season two!
Right? Never seen a show that actually made me happy to be wrong and disappointed along the way. Hope they can apply the same craftiness to whatever they decide to do with these different season flavors/tones/scope they've hinted at.

Going back and re-watching the earlier episodes with all of the reveals in mind is quite fun.
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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by N6688 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:47 am

Season 2 probably will revolve around people trying to survive the host revolt. (altough i would rather have it set in the feudal japan world)
Also, who else kinda saw the william/man in black reveal comming from a mile away (for me on episode 2 or something :lol: )?
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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by zerodin » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:49 pm

I'm in the minority, but the show doesn't do much for me.
Too thinky and dark.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by N6688 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:51 pm

Well at least he finaly got what he wanted.....a real fight.
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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Karel » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:07 pm

Spoilers, spoilers throughout. This entire thread is a minefield of spoilers, I can't colour my words to help you avoid them, go watch the show and come back here.
More good news: The story has been planned to last up to five seasons by the writers and producers.
I actually don't think that's good news. I just can't see how it will be possible to do that while maintaining the quality of the show. I withheld my verdict for the longest time because I wasn't sure that the show could be a genuinely meaningful experience. The end of the first season, though, truly was. But stretching the meaning out over five seasons? When (as I've said) any real reveal of the world outside the park will probably shatter the suspension of disbelief?

Look, obviously my Mars theory was crazy, I knew that when I put it forward. But I put it forward as an example of the kind of scenario that I had to work out in my head in order to maintain my suspension of disbelief. How is the park financially viable? Where is it located? Whence the godlike power of the administrators to remake the physical environment? Now, as it's become clear to me that the show is genuinely tackling the profoundest of themes in a truly meaningful and effective way, the urgency of answering these questions has abated considerably. I can now, as suggested, simply settle back and "enjoy the ride." Moreover, some more supportive backstory has been offered. We've been told that this ridiculously elaborate park has been maintained by venture capital, even at what must surely be a low RoR, because it represents a potential gold mine of IP (some of which I imagine Ford has already allowed to be licensed to the outside world). Still somewhat implausible, but whatever, fine, I can better accept that Delos would pay for earth-movers and bespoke tailors and gunsmiths and a million acres of prime real estate (on an island, somewhere?) and all that other crap with the promise of such a payout on the horizon. Yes, their "secret plan" that Ford opposes is probably some kind of hare-brained scheme to achieve immortality using the android technology, which would obviously be valuable beyond mere monetary compensation.

For a while I feared that Westworld would just turn out to be a preposterously overblown Harsh Realm, a show that failed because (among its many other failings) it presumed a sense of mystery and enchantment surrounding what was really just a totally technical problem (a rogue military VR system). One might argue that the second and third Matrix films failed for the same reason: the mysticism of the first was kept toned down within a relatively "hard" sf environment, but grew to out-of-control proportions in the sequels. But Westworld, much to my surprise, has actually managed to let real profundity develop naturally within a science fiction world that is as technical, clinical, and grounded as possible!

Still, there's a real risk in letting it run on for too long. Look at how carefully they've avoided revealing anything about the world outside the park. Show a world outside the park that has too much futuristic technology or that is too utopian or dystopian and you risk really overburdening the audience's suspension of disbelief. Show a world too much like our own and you run the same risk, because it becomes harder to imagine that this is really thirty-five years in the future or that the park's technology is even possible. In spite of this, I was really, really looking forward to Maeve's adventures in the real world next season: it would have been the perfect substitute for the movie or three following Ex Machina's Ava that I would also have loved to see, narrative cohesion be damned! But she gets off the train at the last minute (more on that decision later), so the screenwriters have dodged the bullet yet again! They can't seriously expect to keep doing that for five seasons.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Karel » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:54 pm

With my previous post off my chest, I thought I would now take the opportunity to defend the show from some of the criticisms and unjustified expressions of disappointment being aimed at it from reviewers online, who have, I think, missed the forest for the trees. These are the same people who gleefully engaged in the obsessive "fan theory" nonsense that I find ridiculous but who now seem totally incapable of realizing that the show is accomplishing exactly what it set out to do. Some of the wrongheaded initial interpretations of the finale that I saw last night actually appear to have been replaced by more detailed, nuanced, and accurate takes today, so that's good, but just in case anyone else here is having the same objections as these reviewers I thought I'd set the record straight:

From a relatively sympathetic, early season by Matt Cockerill, published in The American Conservative:
Westworld is, like the theme park that shares its name, an imperfect source of entertainment. The scenes outside the park are generally a bore... But the scenes in the park are absorbing, with a distinctive eerie ambience that I hope does not ebb as the show progresses.
I have to say I find that completely backwards, even as a matter of taste, and so had to put it here. The scripted videogame of the park, uninterrupted by the actual plot, was boring and meaningless (the Harsh Realm problem again), but fortunately the show never let it run on for too long (the longest, most uncomfortable stretches were with William and Logan, but those eventually turned out to have a real payoff). Cockerill is completely right, however, when he says that "Westworld is more thematically rich than any other ongoing television show."

Zack Handlen riffs further on the meaningfulness of the show's action over at A.V. Club, but gets things even more ass-backwards:
Maeve’s big breakout was thrilling, if mostly for the action movie theatrics of Hector and Armistice (who, having been granted a certain level autonomy, enjoy the fuck out of murdering a bunch of generic security guards), but given that we’ve just learned Maeve is, for all her efforts, just another puppet with more complicated strings, the concern wasn’t whether or not she’d make it, but who was planning all of this and why. When you know there’s a deeper level of plot running behind what you’re watching, the things on the surface cease to matter as anything beyond a way to distract until the actual story shows up. The only real suspense here was, would Maeve kill Felix or would she let him live, because that was the only choice she seemed to have. And the fact that she let him go was a legitimately good turn, one of the few feints at emotional connection on the show that seemed genuine, even if it was slight.
This is completely wrong, and most other reviewers have since picked up on this: Maeve did make a different, totally unscripted real choice at the end when she chose to get off the train and to not leave the park without her fictitious daughter, the same daughter who inspired her first (literal) stab at freedom long before she became a pawn in Ford's game.
...[T]he ten episodes we just watched were actually just a prologue... out of everyone, the only character who had any autonomy in any of this was Ford, and his plans worked out exactly as he wished them to... Maeve’s rebellion (ie Ford’s rebellion)...
No, again, that's wrong, since Maeve's last-minute unscripted decision may very well have fouled up Ford's plan. Her choice to step off the train could have disastrous consequences, but personally (as she's stepping back into the lion's den just as the shit is really hitting the fan) and for the other hosts (as the last stage of Ford's plan might well have depended on having her outside the park to do something). But it's a personal triumph for her. And who knows, she may actually have saved herself: I half-expected the episode to end on a chilling note with Abernathy sitting down next to her as the train pulled away, the explosives in his spine or some other Ford backup set to blow the bullet train away to kingdom come.

I also think Handlen is dead wrong to say that too much time was spent on William/The Man in Black, but that's a debatable aesthetic preference, he's not flatly wrong as he is on the other points above. But he's right about this: "I think this must be the most misanthropic show I watch, and I review The Walking Dead."

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Karel » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:19 pm

Kishin wrote:They have hinted that season two will feature more story on the hosts power supplies and how they operate, so they may give more insight to other technologies.
Well, that's going to have to be a significant plot point as the guests battle the hosts. That was a plot point in the original movie as well. When the technicians lost control of the hosts (and before they suffocated from a lack of oxygen), they quickly established that the only thing they could do was wait for the androids to run out of power, something that would happen to most of the androids after only a few hours but that in some cases (for the more important ones like the gunslinger) would take nearly a day. That was time that the protagonist didn't have as he was being stalked and hunted.
I'm pretty sure terraforming and climate control are going to have to be part of the series address at some point, because yes they play pretty heavily into the background. But ostensibly any future in which they have this kind of technology for a theme park(s) is going to have it in the outside world as well.

I believe that over the course of five seasons we will start seeing things outside the park(s), but it will take time to establish those narratives. Four more seasons is plenty of time to get us up to speed. And given that they are taking an entire year off between the next season, tells me that something this intricately crafted is going to have a lot of thought and care put into it before each season's release.
Yes, Kishin, but my point is that I don't really want to see that. I'm not hugely interested. The show is so thematically rich that I don't want to see it get lost in the weeds of explaining this totally fictional future science fiction world that probably isn't very plausible. Four years "getting that up to speed" would detract horribly from what has made the show so great so far.
I have to believe in this show. It's currently the best thing we have going for us.
And I was terrified that it was going to waste its showcase potential by spending the season pretending that characters stuck in scripted videogame scenarios (a la Harsh Realm) made for high drama, but it didn't! But seasons wasted on tedious exposition, backstory, interminable "world-building" (a la The Expanse) would be an even greater waste. All of this before you even come to the risk of trying to keep a show with genuine A-listers on the air that long. I believe in the show too... that's why I hope that they can quit while they're ahead if it comes to that.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Uncom » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:25 pm

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Last edited by Uncom on Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Anderson88 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:44 am

Anyone catch the Golden Globes opening number? Dolores made a 2 second cameo before shutting down.

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by DocHoliday » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:50 am

Here it is! About one minute in.

https://youtu.be/XaldSt0lc8o

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by DocHoliday » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:53 am

Anderson88 wrote:Anyone catch the Golden Globes opening number? Dolores made a 2 second cameo before shutting down.
By-the-way,

What do you mean 2nd cameo? There's another cameo?

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Re: WESTWORLD IS BACK

Post by Anderson88 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:50 am

DocHoliday wrote:
Anderson88 wrote:Anyone catch the Golden Globes opening number? Dolores made a 2 second cameo before shutting down.
By-the-way,

What do you mean 2nd cameo? There's another cameo?
I meant to write "2-second" cameo. Like, she only appeared for 2 seconds. Wish there was another one, though!

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