I'm not suggesting a row...

Karel · Post by **Karel** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:10 am

...but I have found http://feministing.com coverage of our own pet interests to be extremely engaging. They've brought up the Heinekin commercials, and just a few days ago found a Russian beer ad where a guy deflates his girl like a blow-up doll (for those of you interested in that sort of thing). And they've gone into all sorts of stuff related to the Realdoll phenomenon.

As of today, they've decided to weigh in on the marketing campaign for "The Sarah Conner Chronicles." The moderator brought it up as "'ew' of the day", but most of the comments on the site are actually positive! There's a general pall about the prospects of the show, but the consensus seems to be that "It's sci-fi," and that the posters look cool:

"...She looks like she's going to kick your ass, and she doesn't even have arms yet. That's pretty fierce."

I think it's worth thinking about. I actually consider myself one of the last true feminists (yes, I am a dude). Frankly, if you take the most extreme arguments of someone like Andrea Dworkin, who thought heterosexual sex was unavoidably misogynistic, it only makes sense to farm the task out to machines! It might help us to relate to real women on a rational, Platonic level.

droidlvr · Post by **droidlvr** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:36 am

I think it's worth thinking about. I actually consider myself one of the last true feminists (yes, I am a dude). Frankly, if you take the most extreme arguments of someone like Andrea Dworkin, who thought heterosexual sex was unavoidably misogynistic, it only makes sense to farm the task out to machines! It might help us to relate to real women on a rational, Platonic level.

Oh please.

Don't get me started about feminazis and manginas.

While Dworkin's "logic" may justify the creation and use of fembots to some (myself included),she and other feminazis I'm sure wouldn't approve of it.
It'll only "encourage the idea of woman as a sexual object".

Karel · Post by **Karel** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:52 am

droidlvr: oh, of course Dworkin wouldn't approve of it. She didn't approve of anything fun! She was as dour a fanatic as the Ayatollah Khomeini. But hey, we don't need her approval to charge androids to our credit cards!

Robotman: true 'nuff!

No, honestly, I describe myself as the last true feminist largely because I revile the stuff that crawls out of the woodwork on that site. About one out of every ten headlines they come up with is something particularly egregious that I can actually get behind them on, like stories of bungled police procedure in rape cases or heinous anti-woman violence in the third world. But those are all terrible exceptions, which are treated as the norm. And at least four out of every ten headlines make my skin crawl, before I even hazard the comments.

Still, they seem fascinated by us. If any of their moderators ever found out about the existence of this site, you can be sure that it would be headline news on their blog the next day. Know thine enemy (if only to find common ground).

droidlvr · Post by **droidlvr** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:06 pm

It might help us to relate to real women on a rational, Platonic level.

As a "last true feminist" the above statement suggests that males cannot otherwise unless aided by technology.
I'm a proud anti-feminist in every way. Don't need to be feminist in order not to place the other sex on a pedestal.

Karel · Post by **Karel** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:23 pm

Well, yeah, droidlvr, don't place women on pedestals, any more than you would any sort of human beings. But, uh, don't kick them down in the dirt either. I'm not saying that you're suggesting doing that, or that that's your attitude. But look: the possibility of sex resonates in the background of my relationships with almost every woman I know. It's unavoidable. It dictates my behaviour towards them, unavoidably. Having an android (or a wife) on the side wouldn't even cure that; and most feminists would say that it would probably even make it worse, like those pedophiles who become so worked up by child pornography that they transition into actual child molesters. They would argue that having an android woman around, that we could have sex with any time we wanted to, turn on or off, or even punch or kick or spit on with impunity, would deform our expectations of real women. And that's a reasonable argument! Which we should analyze reasonably.

Most feminists would say that most of us are into ASFR because we're already misogynists. I'd like to think that that's not true. I'd like to think that I'm not a misogynist: but you know, I really can't be sure. I don't think anyone can be 100% sure of something like that, not when there are so many competing definitions of what the word itself actually means. Maybe I am: maybe it's not bad that I am, or that I am by the reckoning of nine out of every ten people, but not by my own. It's worth thinking about. Because whatever the word "misogyny" means, it has negative aspects. I think we all have a responsibility to be sure that our behaviour does not acquire those negative aspects, be they "misogynistic" or not, should we ever actually realize the fantasies talked about on this site.

xodar · Post by **xodar** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:49 pm

Feminists are the enemies of humanity, progress, and mental health.

Pond scum and putrified skunk corpses are more appealing.

But I'd better quit before I say something tasteless. Oh, wait, I said "feminist" so I already did.

Karel · Post by **Karel** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:49 pm

They're up to sixty-seven comments on the Terminator series over at the other site, and I highly recommend everyone over here to just go over and take a gander. It's the only discussion feministing has ever hosted that I actually feel is productive and valuable, because people approach the science fictional concepts from so many different viewpoints that virtually every gamut of opinion is represented. Just a sample:

"There are plenty of high-school girls who don't look like skinny-doll actresses. Most high-school girls, I would venture to suggest, do not look like skinny-doll actresses. They're not trying to make her blend into an actual high school--they're trying to make her blend into typical television sexual-objecthood for young women, which is exactly what I'm objecting to."

"I personally fall into the 'just a robot' camp. I also see no particular eroticism in the image. The terminator's missing body parts just seems to emphasize that it is not a human being at all. Which kinda precludes me from seeing it as an image of a woman made powerless. Another poster mentioned Ghost In The Shell. For me, one interesting thing about that show was Kusanagi's attitudes about her own cyborg body (and the occasional unwanted attention it attracts from robot-fetishists)."

"Get over yourself, get over your bullshit elitist attitude. Cant enjoy a movie because your fucked up interpretations? You need serious pscyological help. Its ok for Arnold (and a number of other men)to do for over two decades, but woe is me when a woman is featured."

Yes, droidlvr, you can find common ground, even with feminists.
Analyzing other points of view, and finding common ground where and when you can, is important.

Anyone here who's thinking of revealing their fetish to a significant other, especially if that significant other is a woman of the opposite sex, I would highly recommend to take a survey of these comments on the other site. Feminism, like it or not, is culturally ubiquitous, and if the girl or woman you love experiences visceral distaste at the idea of ASFR, she will probably use some kind of feminism to justify it.

Or, even worse, if she doesn't find it distasteful, if she in fact thinks its kind of kinky and really likes the idea at first, she might still get wrapped up in an ideological feminist argument that says it's "wrong", and end up in opposition to you as a result.

Having some familiarity with those arguments and issues will greatly help to forestall or address such problems, and prepare you to broach the topic.

keraptis · Post by **keraptis** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:07 pm

Karel wrote:They're up to sixty-seven comments on the Terminator series over at the other site, and I highly recommend everyone over here to just go over and take a gander. It's the only discussion feministing has ever hosted that I actually feel is productive and valuable, because people approach the science fictional concepts from so many different viewpoints that virtually every gamut of opinion is represented. Just a sample:

"There are plenty of high-school girls who don't look like skinny-doll actresses. Most high-school girls, I would venture to suggest, do not look like skinny-doll actresses. They're not trying to make her blend into an actual high school--they're trying to make her blend into typical television sexual-objecthood for young women, which is exactly what I'm objecting to."

"I personally fall into the 'just a robot' camp. I also see no particular eroticism in the image. The terminator's missing body parts just seems to emphasize that it is not a human being at all. Which kinda precludes me from seeing it as an image of a woman made powerless. Another poster mentioned Ghost In The Shell. For me, one interesting thing about that show was Kusanagi's attitudes about her own cyborg body (and the occasional unwanted attention it attracts from robot-fetishists)."

"Get over yourself, get over your bullshit elitist attitude. Cant enjoy a movie because your fucked up interpretations? You need serious pscyological help. Its ok for Arnold (and a number of other men)to do for over two decades, but woe is me when a woman is featured."

Yes, droidlvr, you can find common ground, even with feminists.
Analyzing other points of view, and finding common ground where and when you can, is important.

Anyone here who's thinking of revealing their fetish to a significant other, especially if that significant other is a woman of the opposite sex, I would highly recommend to take a survey of these comments on the other site. Feminism, like it or not, is culturally ubiquitous, and if the girl or woman you love experiences visceral distaste at the idea of ASFR, she will probably use some kind of feminism to justify it.

Or, even worse, if she doesn't find it distasteful, if she in fact thinks its kind of kinky and really likes the idea at first, she might still get wrapped up in an ideological feminist argument that says it's "wrong", and end up in opposition to you as a result.

Having some familiarity with those arguments and issues will greatly help to forestall or address such problems, and prepare you to broach the topic.

Great post.

Karel · Post by **Karel** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:53 pm

Lol! Well, thank you keraptis! I try.

Tio · Post by **Tio** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:22 am

This just annoys me.

I hate any group of people who think they are better or deserve better than another group of people based on some aesthetic such as gender, skin colour or religion.

All people are equal or at least should be. There are always going to be men who view women as objects and vice verser. To be honest there are women who view women as objects too and men for men.

Why are we even bitching over this. Female shaped and acting robots are just robots. The chassis is just for preference of the owner. A man is not going to teat women horribly just cause he has a bot he only switches on for sex. I dont treat men/women horribly cause I have a porn collection, vibrator and brilliant imagination. I dont laugh at mens cocks cause it doesnt have the ridges and 5 settings my vibrator does. And I dont expect the women I fuck to have perfect breasts and act like a porn star. Fucking real people is different.

And on top of that, THERE ARE NO SEX ROBOTS YET!!!

Sheeesh!

P.S Out of all the female friends I have spoken to, my partners over the years both male and female no-one has ever found this whole robot fetish odd, creepy or offensive.
I do think it is silly to assume that a new girlfriend will run a way in terror at the idea of being a robot every so often to make you happy. Explain it properly and you wont sound creepy. I often explain by giving media examples of bots such as the terminator girl to emphasize that robots can be sexy.

A.N.N. · Post by **A.N.N.** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:05 am

Excellent posts Karel! And some very insightful commentary.

You also have a very good point Tio. I wish everyone was as comfortable and open about sex as you are. If we all were, I think we wouldn't have as many sex-related (perceived or real) issues as we do today. I believe sex should be celebrated and fun for all participants (whoever or however you may conceive it), not treated like a chore like cleaning, or filth like rotten food. It's a beautiful thing, and 100% normal no matter how you do it.

We all have preferences, and (quick metaphor) just because I don't like to eat seaweed doesn't mean no one should eat it. It's still food.