Gender and Technosexuality

General chat about fembots, technosexual culture or any other ASFR related topics that do not fit into the other categories below.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Lithorien » Tue May 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Miss Pris wrote:This being said, I think we have a lexical problem with "feminism." Feminism is named as such because it is originally a cultural critique from a female perspective. It remains that in academia - an intellectual discussion that examines alternate modalities in gender perceptions - but when it moved into a political project it really should have chosen a more inclusive moniker. Mainstream, social "feminism" is a move toward egalitarianism. Perhaps it should have been called that, and many people do use the term "gender equality" to signify that there is not a privileging of women above men. A new word needs to be created for those individuals who DO want to privilege women over men, hate men, and/or believe that women are superior to men. I don't know what that word should be - perhaps "Female Supremicists" or "Female Separatists" would work. But, it seems to me that Dark is talking about Female Separatists/Supremicists and BD is talking about gender equality.
See, that's the trick. The word for "female supremacy" IS "Feminism". Looking at the actions of feminists in recent history, things such as the Deluth Model of Domestic Violence, VAWA, the opposition to shared parenting from the largest feminist organization in the west (NOW), the legal presumption that men cannot be raped which leads to them being unable to seek redress for being raped in the legal system, and in fact being punished for it (see any case where a boy was raped and then forced to pay child support to his rapist who was NOT punished in any way)...

Unfortunately for feminism, the actions of its loudest supporters have tainted the word and have made it leave a dirty taste in a lot of people's mouths. It would be wonderful to see the moderate "feminists" (and I use that term loosely as the moderates aren't really for female supremacy, but actual legal and social equality) and the members of the MRM/MHRM get together under a single banner, but the constant "us vs them" mentality and actions of the loudest feminists and misandrists make that impossible.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Lithorien » Tue May 17, 2016 12:41 pm

BD wrote:O_O feminists are in power?! Since when? As far as i know up 'till now they are just asking and are widely ignored. Personally after hearing their requests i don't find them eirthe constrictive or in any way demeaning. But seriously: Feminists are in power?! Since when?!
...Are you serious? Just look, for example, at how much money the (United States) federal government earmarks for women's health, shelters, etc. WOMEN ONLY, mind you. Now take a look and find out if there's any money earmarked whatsoever for men. Wait, I can save you the trouble - there isn't. $0 budgeted for men, multiple millions for women. Hell, men don't have the right to bodily autonomy (female circumcision = illegal, male circumcision = legal; the draft is currently male-only and I DON'T GET LEGAL RIGHTS UNLESS I SIGN UP...), sexual freedom and the right to say no (men cannot be raped under the US legal system's definitions except by another man), or even the right of fatherhood (men don't have to be notified if a child is theirs, and are legally required to care for a child who is not theirs if a woman takes them to court for child support).

All of that is the direct result of feminist campaigning. That's not all of it, mind you, but those are just some of the glaring obviously unequal results of feminism. Leaving alone shared parenting, the education gap, the massive welfare gap in favor of women, and the legal system's undue weight on sentencing men more harshly than women - as well as the assumption that men are guilty where women are not (predominant aggressor policies come to mind).

...How aren't feminists in power, again?

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by dale coba » Tue May 17, 2016 2:13 pm

Miss Pris wrote:Most of the people I speak to about my research - women or otherwise - were completely unaware of the existence of technosexuality/ASFR or anything similar.
jolshefsky wrote:This I find very fascinating. As a fetishistic category, I think it has some unique traits. For myself, it's a fetish entirely of fantasy so I don't desire to act it out in any deep way (e.g. I don't really want to have a robot copy of some attractive woman, just fantasize about it). I think most fetishes are based on the ability to have real-life experiences (everything from foot-fetishists to BDSM). There are no sentient androids–just as there are no giantesses or anthropomorphic animals–so I wonder if there is an unexplored category of sexuality there.
A dichotomy between materially impossible fetishes
and all the rest which can be acted involving real people and objects.

It's worthy of terminology. It may not say anything clear or simple about WHY people are in which camp; or in both. It's a new frontier in Nature vs. Nurture, inheritance vs. environment.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Miss Pris wrote:But, it seems to me that Dark is talking about Female Separatists/Supremicists and BD is talking about gender equality.
That's why I put the word feminism in ticks when I told about those hilarious events. These Female Separatists/Supremicists as you call them had occupied the word feminism for their own agenda, which isn't about how to live together peacefully but about who to blame and how to get rid of the hallucinated problem. EX-TER-MI-NA-TE.


Could you imagine Germany's #1 "feminist" would publicly condemn someone during a trial about a really really serious crime (in Germany it's *at minimum* one year in prison for rape, that's as bad as armed robbery) just because she finds exploiting gullible women for fun is as bad as rape. Should I add NOT GUILTY Mr Kachelmann was in prison for 132 days during his trial just because of the accusation and the media coverage?

Could you imagine Germany's #1 "feminist" would write about that trial for a tabloid she always said she abhored because it exploits women sexually (it actually exploits anyone in any way). They even made a advertising campaign with her face on the bus stops, praising BILD.

If you can imagine that, you can also imagine Germany's #1 "feminist" advocated to prohibit prostitution and to make porn illegal.

Mrs Schwarzer has exploited feminism for her own agenda. She's the nanny telling every man and woman what do to and not to do with their sexuality. And she has Millions of followers.


But, there are other "feminist" groups here in Germany, which are even worse than Mrs Schwarzer. Some of them destroyed Germany's Pirate Party by entering the new party in numbers, being loud and obnoxious and pushing the party's agenda from things like free speech and privacy on the net to "feminism". Do you think anyone would vote for that? I don't mean feminism but "feminism". Hell, no! – "Hiya there! Yeah, I have a brain and it found you are nuts. Go away."
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 2:48 pm

I should add, the reason why I posted those stories about "feminism" was to laugh about this abomination. It's a freak show.

Meanwhile, all thumbs up for feminism. That one without ticks. That one made by women who just stand their ground. Without bells and whistles.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by dale coba » Tue May 17, 2016 3:12 pm

I'm trying to understand the landscape, not particularly aiming to provoke...

I'm pretty sure Rush Limbaugh and other AM radio talkers would have been the ones to discuss the German incidents you describe (and in the way you describe them), if they had happened in the U.S. The rest of media wouldn't have shared or respected your perspective.

You and I draw different conclusions about what that means, what it says about the media and people; and about how far outside the norms and facts you might be. You have your Rush Limbaugh-equivalent media, and you know you are right, so I guess that's enough for you (even though everyone who doesn't follow your media has rejected those sources for themselves).

I don't want to make a comparison to racism, and I'm not. I have been working on an analogous question to ask a possibly racist white person (not a self proclaimed racist person):

Let's say, given only the true and full evidence, a large number African Americans or Hispanics were given the chance to conclude whether or not that possibly racist white person is racist - and to what degree (because there are so many ways to willfully forget that the dominant powers that be are helping you take advantage of others).

How high does that percentage of condemning Others have to be,
before one questions oneself?

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 3:37 pm

dale coba wrote:You and I draw different conclusions about what that means, what it says about the media and people; and about how far outside the norms and facts you might be. You have your Rush Limbaugh-equivalent media, and you know you are right, so I guess that's enough for you (even though everyone who doesn't follow your media has rejected those sources for themselves).
Dale, you are soooo wrong.

BILD is "Rush Limbaugh-equivalent media". That makes it so hilarious. Yep. Germany's #1 "feminist" wrote for "Rush Limbaugh-equivalent media".
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by dale coba » Tue May 17, 2016 3:41 pm

You can't figure out which side I'm talking about?
Excuse my confusing language.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 4:32 pm

Yes, it sounded that way you are expecting me to follow hate-media which attack feminists just because... well shit, just because! (I expect Rush Limbaugh to do that. Couldn't check. Sorry, can't stand him any longer than a minute, he's just too terrible.)

No, I don't do that. I can't stand BILD either. It's just too dumb.

But yes, there are many many people who read BILD. In relation, I think much more than there are listeners to Rush Limbaugh. It's the #1 tabloid in Germany and it has more power than the #1 tv broadcasters, ARD and ZDF (who broadcast 24 nationwide PBS-like channels).

So, if a self-declared 40-year-practise #1 "feminist" is co-moderating a Rush Limbaugh show, what do you think? About her? About "feminism"?
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 4:54 pm

dale coba wrote:Let's say, given only the true and full evidence, a large number African Americans or Hispanics were given the chance to conclude whether or not that possibly racist white person is racist - and to what degree (because there are so many ways to willfully forget that the dominant powers that be are helping you take advantage of others). How high does that percentage of condemning Others have to be, before one questions oneself?
I don't think "feminists" have this problem. Either they say women are merily treated as objects who cannot act at all under the malicious power of men, and if you prove they effectively *are* acting reciprocally, they say they have the right to do so because in history, men had always suppressed them. Mrs. Schwarzer wrote a number of articles on this years ago and found it is women's right to act that way, as society don't give them another chance but to be deceitful.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by dale coba » Tue May 17, 2016 5:01 pm

If we had European-style tabloids, I could make a better comparison.

I see no common media over here, outside of the right-wingers, that channels such angry discussions with and about feminists.

Is Germany that much different from the U.S.?
Sure, there are far more female elected officials, that's better than the U.S.

But otherwise, either Germany or your view, or both together, are pretty twisted (US-relative).

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Tue May 17, 2016 5:35 pm

dale coba wrote:I see no common media over here, outside of the right-wingers, that channels such angry discussions with and about feminists. Is Germany that much different from the U.S.?
Ah, no. Critics on "feminism" is a taboo subject in German media. If you write something about this, you gain nothing but another "feminist" "uproar". So journalists avoid that mine field at all costs. It's only the right-wingers and "masculists" which discuss such things. But these guys take "feminism" seriously and overreact themselves.

What to do when you don't want a clash but a peaceful coexistence of empowered women and empowered men? Especially taken the fact most men are subordinates to other men, too.

Sure, there are far more female elected officials, that's better than the U.S.
Ah, it's all a big sleaze. Did you know Angela Merkel, Friede Springer (owner of BILD) and Liz Mohn (owner of the largest media company in Germany, Bertelsmann) are best friends?

Observation: Women gain more power.
Realization: Women are exactly as dumb as men.

But otherwise, either Germany or your view, or both together, are pretty twisted (US-relative).
My view is that of a bystander. I don't want to ever get involved into anything related to "feminism". You can't win.

But I don't want to go easy on people either. I don't say my perception is the truth but my perception makes me laugh about those things. I want to share that laugh.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Esleeper » Tue May 17, 2016 10:41 pm

I question how all of this is even relevant to technosexuality anymore; remember, this whole topic was made solely as a means to an end by someone who only wanted to start pointless debates like the one happening right now. And honestly, does it actually matter to us what some hack in a German tabloid that will never affect what we do says about some issue that most of us have no desire to be involved with?

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Wed May 18, 2016 12:34 am

From the start:
Miss Priss wrote:Unfortunately, as with nearly any movement, there is a very vocal extreme version of "feminism" (which is often nothing less than hatred, really) who would not only denounce anyone for technosexual interests (by their very nature as potentially heterosexual and/or involving a woman choosing to be submissive in any way, even as a fantasy) but would burn me at a stake for being a woman involved in such an interest (even though I am not submissive, and am attracted to cyborgs, sentient gynoids and sentient androids.) We should not judge a group by a vocal, extremist majority. Most people are more nuanced than a single group or subsection of that group would allow.
First, don't read 'vocal, extremist minority' there, because it's in fact a majority (of "feminists") who would burn her at the stake for her technosexual interest. Group dynamics. Feel of power when acting from within a group.

Because, as I replied to her
darkbutflashy wrote:I think there is a strong bond between today's "feminism" and nannying everyone.
That's why I gave some hilarious examples of such tries of "feminists" to nanny everyone. Including loathing women who stand their own ground without the help of "feminists" and including our #1 "feminist" Mrs Schwarzer, who turns out to be compatible with the "right wing" to some degree. Well, to the degree of hate.

Yeah, it's twisted. Yeah, it makes my mind boggle. That's why I laugh.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by BD » Wed May 18, 2016 4:39 am

I recognize this is going deep into trolling.

There's a difference between feminism and assholes that "want" to be called feminists. That is true.

There's still a huge discrimination against half of the human population, and it ain't men. That it true.

There's some government funded help towards women. That is true. But seeing the situation in general i feel the opposite of "feminists in power". That is my opinion.

But mostly i think this thread is going into trolling or troll feeding. So i'm quitting it. I hate "hate speeches".

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Esleeper » Wed May 18, 2016 7:45 am

darkbutflashy, I already told you that this forum is no place for politics, so leave it alone.

I would strongly suggest to Robotman or anyone else who has the power to do so to please lock this thread or move it to "Off-Topic". There is simply nothing left here that is worth discussing, and it has become nothing more than whining about people whose views we don't like.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Esleeper » Wed May 18, 2016 10:27 am

Understood. I simply saw the subject matter drifting increasingly far from its stated subject due to certain posts that seemed to have no purpose other than complaining about people whose decisions the poster disliked.

As for the link Robotman brought up, it's just proof that some people are so obsessed with what other people do in the privacy of their bedrooms that they will invent entire nightmare scenarios about technology that does not even exist yet. But before you claim this is a proof that feminists are crazy or something like that, ask yourself this: Why have they not done anything about (for example) Fleshlights, or inflatable sex dolls? And why has nobody ever heard of those people until this point?

The answer is simple: It's a cynical ploy for attention whose proponents most likely do not believe a word of what they say. The only motives they have for their campaign are greed and a need to be noticed. Such things are hardly limited to one form of ideology or another, in my experience- and nothing substantial ever arises from them due to the simple fact that at their core they are nothing but talk.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Wed May 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Esleeper and I had exchanged a PM about this. I don't want to repeat myself here over and over again, so if anyone likes to ask me why I think the way I think, just send me a PM. I will answer in a civil way.

BD: I didn't write feminists (or "feminists") are in power. I wrote I think there is a strong connection between feminism and nannying everyone. And I wrote, to make rules and expect people to follow them isn't a property of feminism, but a property of clueless people coming to power.

That means: when a clueless person gets a glimpse of power, he or she wants to exercise it as much and as often as possible. And that's how "feminists" act in my view.
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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Esleeper » Wed May 18, 2016 5:26 pm

darkbutflashy wrote:Esleeper and I had exchanged a PM about this. I don't want to repeat myself here over and over again, so if anyone likes to ask me why I think the way I think, just send me a PM. I will answer in a civil way.

BD: I didn't write feminists (or "feminists") are in power. I wrote I think there is a strong connection between feminism and nannying everyone. And I wrote, to make rules and expect people to follow them isn't a property of feminism, but a property of clueless people coming to power.

That means: when a clueless person gets a glimpse of power, he or she wants to exercise it as much and as often as possible. And that's how "feminists" act in my view.
I've found it's not clueless people who do that so much as anyone who wants power and doesn't have the maturity needed to use it wisely. And also those who just want to be tyrants for whatever reason they may have. The clueless sorts are much more likely to be the ones welcoming those oppressors with open arms.


In the cases darkbutflashy described to me, I have to assume it is the latter. Plus, "nannying" isn't the right word since that implies care for the people being treated that way. It's more accurate to say they're being ruled over-not the least because that's what the people espousing those views really want to do.

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by Miss Pris » Wed May 18, 2016 10:03 pm

I forget at this point who first mentioned it, but personally, I really liked the term "puritan." It's a good word to describe those nosy, self-righteous people with sticks up their butts who are so concerned about what other people do in their bedrooms (or dungeons, or wherever) and with whom or what they do it that it eclipses all reason and discussion. There are always going to be those people who lack any passion for life beyond telling others how to live theirs. The idea that someone, somewhere is having a consensual and enthusiastic good time is anathema to these people. They're in every group, every "ism" - and they thrive on their own bitterness and hatred of whatever "other" they've decided is the sole reason for their pain.

(And you'd think with those sticks up their butts, they'd be more open to kink. Anyway...)

I think the original discussion here was about if certain genders enjoy or are open to technosexual/ASFR interests more than others. So far, I've been pleasantly surprised to see that women outside of this forum seem open to the idea and discussion of these interests (once I tell women about the existence of technosexualities/ASFR) as much as men (although, admittedly, maybe it's because It's a women discussing it with them - so technosexuality becomes "vetted" so to speak - because of course I automatically know what other women will like because I'm female :wtf: ) It also might be the way I present the material, generally starting off by pointing out how most everyone is already a cyborg with our contact lenses, pharmacology, and various surgical implants and fixes, so most everyone is a technosexual already, at least to some degree (fancying other lensed, fixed up and augmented people as we do.) Any discussion of the ASFR/role play stuff seems to get the same bit of giggling (but excited giggling) that the discussion of BDSM would get (and sometimes, subtle, knowing smiles.)

So I'm personally not finding a huge gender difference in interest (in an academic setting, which is very different than the "real" world, of course.) I would love to say more about what I think about related differences, but I have to wait until all of my interviews are done, in case any of my interviewees read this thread (I don't want to influence anyone with my specific hypotheses before I actually get my data, as that would mess up my results of course - but I'll be happy to run my virtual mouth as soon as all interviews are in.)

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Re: Gender and Technosexuality

Post by darkbutflashy » Fri May 20, 2016 5:46 am

I like to pick this up. Because I think I'm in a minority here, being interested in
  1. physical transformation which makes a woman tougher than men, giving her a safety net against violence.
  2. mind transformation coming from within her which is triggered by not fitting into the usual women role model.
  3. the mix of exploring "robotic" sexuality as a woman and exploring female sexuality as a robot.
Is that a gender difference? I don't know. There is the Dominatrix scene which fits at least a bit but I'm not turned on by humiliating men. Or women. That whole BDSM stuff isn't appealing to me because it objectifies men and women just too much.

That's why I like that "robocop woman" theme. She sure is powerful but not violent or debasing someone. All the humanity left inside her is needed to make her stay calm and act wisely.
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