Some People Don't Understand

[darkbutflashy]

And I'm very aware of the irony that this argument about human right to dignity and freedom from pain is happening on a forum about feminized objects, a forum that includes people who want to be robots...

Actually this makes kind of sense because we are openly discussing the border between subjects and objects here as a daily exercise. That's why we disgaree and that's why we can have a discussion about it. It won't make sense to bring such an argument e.g. in a feminist forum apart from deliberately trolling.

[Miss Pris]

That's a good point, Dark. I think one of the... divides of interest let's say... on this forum is over the subject/object divide. Some of us want to see that division disappear and some of us want to maintain it. As one of the former, it will be very interesting to me to see how this divide is maintained as technology becomes more self-aware (or creates the appearance of awareness.) Bringing the discussion back around to the original post, this is perhaps one of the things that people don't understand about either the technosexual/fetish community or technosexual interests; there's more than one thing going on here, and more than one reason that people invest themselves in this interest. Differences are continually elided by media representations of this group (and other groups, as you pointed out.) I for one think the subject/object discussion is a more interesting road to go down then a discussion of gender (not that gender has no place in that discussion, but it's only one thread of the fabric); it's a decision as to what WE want to talk about as opposed to what media will dictate that we talk about. It was a skewed and biased article that got us talking about gender in the first place. Such representations should not be ignored, but we shouldn't give them the power to define us, either.

[darkbutflashy]

Such representations should not be ignored, but we shouldn't give them the power to define us, either.

I appreciate the attempt for real grassrooting but I doubt it works that way. "We" are far too diverse to communicate anything other that we are "diverse". That's not a position.

If you mean an attempt of media to define *any* of us, I'm not afraid. Any of us is labeled so many times for so many "reasons"; one learns to ignore that.

[dale coba]

What we have in common: we know that the issues and questions we raise about gender, technology and sexuality are valid and worthy of exploration.

And now, my latest storyboard:


and repeat.

- Dale Coba

[Miss Pris]

No, I mean we shouldn't let someone else define what we want to talk about here. Obviously Dale wants to talk about being on the pro-division side of the subject/object discussion

[dale coba]

The role/rights/identity you want, need, and deserve in the RW
shouldn't have to correlate with how you wish to be treated as a private, consenting sexual adult.

Re-arranging the panels, bringing us back to the primary focus of the forum, eroticism: I suggest that the Id is served best when people can fulfill their libidos in whatever illogical form that takes.

It's harder to politically defend willingly playing into your own stereotype, except when we accept that our reptile brain isn't wired anything like the mammalian upgrades which evolved around it.

Why should the two natures be expected to yearn for a single treatment?

- Dale Coba

[darkbutflashy]

It's harder to politically defend willingly playing into your own stereotype, except when we accept that our reptile brain isn't wired anything like the mammalian upgrades which evolved around it. Why should the two natures be expected to yearn for a single treatment?

I think it's because "people" (again) expect the next step in human evolution have to be peaceful, rational beings. And that's irrational. Evolution doesn't work that way and the proof is the rational train is running for thousands of years now. In the general public, the whole transhumanism topic is emotionally overcharged by the idea of peace, love and understanding. In contrast to that ideal, technology is the driving force in human evolution. Human groups have to adapt new technology or they and their culture will be extinct in the long run. Silently by being abadoned or violently in wars they cannot win.

[daphne]

The role/rights/identity you want, need, and deserve in the RW shouldn't have to correlate with how you wish to be treated as a private, consenting sexual adult.

Re-arranging the panels, bringing us back to the primary focus of the forum, eroticism: I suggest that the Id is served best when people can fulfill their libidos in whatever illogical form that takes.

I read a quote somewhere in an article recently, which I'm too lazy to look up the link for; it was something like "people want to be fucked how they want to be fucked and they make up all manner of validations for it after the fact." That seems very close to what Dale is saying here, which I agree with. Our animal-brain isn't logical. As humans, though, we have a strong tendency towards pattern recognition, and making order out of chaos. For the most part that's a good thing; it's why we're such a successful species. But we also have a tendency to assume that means we're separate from (and by extension, better than) the rest of nature, which is just plain incorrect, and leads to the sorts of illogical validations both Dale and the quote-writer are talking about.

[WilloWisp]

"people want to be fucked how they want to be fucked and they make up all manner of validations for it after the fact."

I won't deny that there's a great deal of truth to the statement, but I disagree with the idea that the causes behind one's kinks are inherently unknowable, or that analysis and reflection are pointless. I think it's very important for people to examine their own motives for any action or desire. A total lack of introspection is a swift path to sociopathic tendencies.

I realize that's not what you're arguing, but a casual reading of the quote could certainly lead one to the 'why bother trying to explain it' attitude.

[daphne]

I disagree with the idea that the causes behind one's kinks are inherently unknowable, or that analysis and reflection are pointless. I think it's very important for people to examine their own motives for any action or desire. A total lack of introspection is a swift path to sociopathic tendencies.

Oh, no, I definitely agree with that side of it, too. Neither extreme is healthy. Particularly in this specific fetish; going down that road leads to some pretty wacky beliefs (like women ARE actually objects, etc.).

More so I was just saying it's okay to have personal desires; how you decide to act on them is another story altogether.

[darkbutflashy]

A total lack of introspection is a swift path to sociopathic tendencies.

No offense Sociopathy is genetically induced and consolidated by negative social experiences in childhood. One doesn't develop it later. It's a kind of personality that brings you into really big trouble unless you are intelligent enough to manage a living on the edge. To achieve the latter, constant introspection is a must; you have to be self-aware any moment of your life to keep The Hulk sleeping. So there is no such thing as "sociopathic tendencies". Either it is total self-control or total loss of self-control. And the switch is not a "total lack of introspection" but a "droplet too few introspection". Again no offense.

Sociopathy isn't rare, about 3% of all men have this personality trait. This forum has 1615 users (I think mostly men), so there are about 45 sociopaths tuned in. Hello there! Do I have to say again I'm not afraid?

[daphne]

Sociopathy is genetically induced and consolidated by negative social experiences in childhood. One doesn't develop it later.

This is just flat out incorrect. For starters, there is no condition called "sociopathy." It is an umbrella term used to describe a number of personality disorders, some of which most certainly do develop later in life -- complex post-traumatic stress disorder, for example.

[darkbutflashy]

You are right. I found "sociopathy" in english is really an umbrella term not classified in ICD-10. So better to avoid that labeling at all. (Which was the reason why I've posted).

[xodar]

It's harder to politically defend willingly playing into your own stereotype, except when we accept that our reptile brain isn't wired anything like the mammalian upgrades which evolved around it. Why should the two natures be expected to yearn for a single treatment?

I think it's because "people" (again) expect the next step in human evolution have to be peaceful, rational beings. And that's irrational. Evolution doesn't work that way and the proof is the rational train is running for thousands of years now. In the general public, the whole transhumanism topic is emotionally overcharged by the idea of peace, love and understanding. In contrast to that ideal, technology is the driving force in human evolution. Human groups have to adapt new technology or they and their culture will be extinct in the long run. Silently by being abadoned or violently in wars they cannot win.

This is right. Making people peaceful and utterly cooperative (i.e. obedient to the elite) leads to extinction. So does separating reproduction from bodies, as in all babies birthed in artificial wombs. So does leaving the thinking to machines. Nobody should strive to be the Eloi.
We should do such things as strengthen the immune system and general intelligence along with specific talents, the latter being more or less randomly distributed.
A problem with too much tinkering beyond improving and making more efficient functions proven in the long run to be worthwhile is that the underlying mechanism of energy will be stressed.

Yes, too much introspection simply becomes a festering pustule. Balance is the key.

I see nobody still wants to believe women are human. Mortal, limited humans with various talents, abilities, and flaws.
One function of fembots should be to remove some of the burdens of projected fantasies without using harsh legal compulsions on them as in some Eastern cultures or harsh legal compulsions against men as in the West.