"Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Keizo » Tue May 01, 2012 6:48 am

So back on topic...

I'm really sorry that it seems you have wasted your time here, Mr. Chavez, and I respect your effort in trying to crowd-fund your project. There are some here that support you but for most of us, we have lived with being labeled "misogynist" (albeit indirectly) for most of our lives and are insulted by the perpetuation of this image through the false premise that a machine will not only develop anthropocentric feelings but also act them out and express them similarly as well. The other negative stereotype that we live with is that the machine gets jealous or is a cold-blooded killer "Skynet" type scenario.

Other than being dismissed as perverts and losers or abusers it would be a nice change of pace to show the positive outcomes for once. Sadly, sir, your story has been done many times. As much as I think your actress is attractive and would love to see her act like a robot, I can't support this project especially since she ultimately will not be acting like a robot.

You are welcome to your opinion, though, so in that regard I wish you the best.

P.S.
Here is the link again where your project was previously discussed where it also unfortunately went off topic:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9937

Also, if you wish to discuss any of this with me, please PM me and I will answer any questions you may have to the best of my abilities.

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby dale coba » Tue May 01, 2012 7:56 am

Asato,

The topic was "Is this a film a good idea?"
So I was on topic.

But thank you, very much.
It takes a big man to apologize.

- Dale Coba
8) :!: :nerd: :idea: : :nerd: :shock: :lovestruck: [ :twisted: :dancing: :oops: :wink: :twisted: ] = [ :drooling: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :party:... ... :applause: :D :lovestruck: :notworthy: :rockon: ]

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Asato » Wed May 02, 2012 9:46 am

dale coba wrote:Asato,

The topic was "Is this a film a good idea?"
So I was on topic.


You know it's not smart to lie when anyone can easily check the truth for themselves.

Let's look at the OP, shall we?

Thread title:
"Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo


Text:
Hello everyone!

I'm working on a short film about a sentient fembot who wants to escape the control of her abusive owner. It's a metaphor for contemporary relationships and how we represent women in our society. It of course deals with a lot of social issues that are sure to come up once "pleasure" bots become a reality.

Check out the promo video (a fake commercial for Rachel 9000) at Indiegogo and support the project if you can and spread the word!

http://www.indiegogo.com/rachel9000
https://www.facebook.com/Rachel9000

Thank you.


I don't see anything here asking "is this a good idea" or even "do you like the idea". Instead, it's just "here is the idea".

He didn't ask for criticism at all - you did.

Anyway, regarding the whole misogyny thing - it seems kind of short-sighted and selfish to try to criticize an allegorical idea written to address a real problem in the world by worrying that people will take the allegory too literally and label your particular fringe group as misogynists.

Sort of reminds me of if PETA decided to complain about Moby Dick - the book isn't really about whaling, it's a complex allegory, but all PETA would care about is that it involves hunting a whale... they would say things like "If it's not meant to be about whales, why even use a whale in the first place"? - AKA totally missing the point.

Of course I haven't seen this proposed film, or even looked at the trailers - for all I know it could be complete garbage and come off as ham-fisted preachy nonsense, but I'm just saying that the whole idea of using robots/AI as allegory for real issues in human society isn't necessarily a bad one, just because it has been done before.

Also please keep in mind this whole rant is nothing but my opinion... no need to get all worked up about it.

Although if you want to make a story like this and avoid portraying male technosexuals as misogynist, then perhaps some ideas would be:

- Have only some of the male characters act bigoted, have others treat the robot(s) respectfully

- Have female human characters be just as bigoted against robots as the males are

- Show, or at least allude to, female humans acting the same way towards male robots

But whatever

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Keizo » Wed May 02, 2012 2:12 pm

Asato wrote:Although if you want to make a story like this and avoid portraying male technosexuals as misogynist, then perhaps some ideas would be:

- Have only some of the male characters act bigoted, have others treat the robot(s) respectfully

- Have female human characters be just as bigoted against robots as the males are

- Show, or at least allude to, female humans acting the same way towards male robots


These are some good points.

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby dale coba » Wed May 02, 2012 7:09 pm

Here's the thing: my reptile brain-core doesn't respect your new-fangled, mammalian, grey-matter, frontal lobe sort of thinking. Sexual drives predate all that stuff, so why should we impose ethical frameworks onto erotic fantasies involving adults? If they are purely fantasy, why not allow the values of Drama and Eroticism to dictate the "logic"? Drama means tension, conflict, power - not everyone being nice to each other. The mental structures at the root of our desire are older than humanity.

I see a few types of reasons to object:
1. If one's "fantasy" is actually a dream most devoutly wished for. (not the same use of "fantasy")
2. If one fears a judgement of sexual or gender politics, from voices within oneself or external critics.
2a. commercial viability.
3. Anti-sex, anti-science "People will imitate that behavior or attitude in the real world" morons.

Otherwise, I think it's the side opposite mine which needs an explanation for why they see the necessity of values or ethics in porn films.

- Dale Coba
8) :!: :nerd: :idea: : :nerd: :shock: :lovestruck: [ :twisted: :dancing: :oops: :wink: :twisted: ] = [ :drooling: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :party:... ... :applause: :D :lovestruck: :notworthy: :rockon: ]

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Asato » Thu May 03, 2012 8:49 am

dale coba wrote:Here's the thing: my reptile brain-core doesn't respect your new-fangled, mammalian, grey-matter, frontal lobe sort of thinking. Sexual drives predate all that stuff, so why should we impose ethical frameworks onto erotic fantasies involving adults? If they are purely fantasy, why not allow the values of Drama and Eroticism to dictate the "logic"? Drama means tension, conflict, power - not everyone being nice to each other. The mental structures at the root of our desire are older than humanity.


That's perfectly fine if you want to do that, but my point was that in your thread, you specifically asked for critique. All I did was give it, and you started whining just because I didn't have the same kind of view on things that you did. If you don't want to hear from anyone who disagrees with you, don't ask people to critique your ideas.

I see a few types of reasons to object:
1. If one's "fantasy" is actually a dream most devoutly wished for. (not the same use of "fantasy")
2. If one fears a judgement of sexual or gender politics, from voices within oneself or external critics.
2a. commercial viability.
3. Anti-sex, anti-science "People will imitate that behavior or attitude in the real world" morons.

Otherwise, I think it's the side opposite mine which needs an explanation for why they see the necessity of values or ethics in porn films.


How about "I find that kind of stuff disgusting, repellant, and a major turn-off"? That good enough for you? Or can you not conceive of anyone having different opinions from you on this?

If someone wrote a story about torturing puppies, would the fact that it had nothing to do with anything in real life suddenly mean I don't have the right to be offended or upset by it?

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby hyperspace51 » Thu May 03, 2012 6:59 pm

^ Asato plz just chill. If u do not like the content of the topic, dont read it! Also, critiquing does not mean to talk about how wrong it is or how it is illegal or how it is murder or anything, its about giving possitive criticism about how the work is written, portrayeauld, and done. Such as like explaining some faults in the work that might not make sense, or how this might contradict this part of the story, not about how it is evil and horrendous and how YOU dont like it. If u dont like it, dont critique it. Just keep it to urself, and move on. Critique stuff u like, dont bash stuff u dont. thats called trolling, and it is shunned in most forums XD. Im not trying to be mean or aggressive, im just trying to say that if u dont like the peice, dont say anything. Ur a good person, just dont bash others work. its not your right to tell people whats right or wrong.

anyways, to try to get back on topic, i love the idea of the movie, and i hope it gets produced! XD

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Asato » Sat May 05, 2012 10:19 am

hyperspace51 wrote:^ Asato plz just chill. If u do not like the content of the topic, dont read it!


That is what I do with 99% of the topics in this forum already. I often go through the threads in the stories forum and if I see something that offends me I just stop reading it. The difference here is that he asked for critique.

Also, critiquing does not mean to talk about how wrong it is or how it is illegal or how it is murder or anything, its about giving possitive criticism about how the work is written, portrayeauld, and done.


Again, you must be using some weird definition of the word "critique" because that's not the dictionary definition. When I hear "critique" I don't equate it with "mindless praise", if that's what he meant he should have just said so.

Such as like explaining some faults in the work that might not make sense, or how this might contradict this part of the story, not about how it is evil and horrendous and how YOU dont like it. If u dont like it, dont critique it.


The point of critique is to explain why you don't like something in the first place

Just keep it to urself, and move on. Critique stuff u like, dont bash stuff u dont. thats called trolling, and it is shunned in most forums XD. Im not trying to be mean or aggressive, im just trying to say that if u dont like the peice, dont say anything. Ur a good person, just dont bash others work. its not your right to tell people whats right or wrong.


It is if they ask me to in the topic title :roll:

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby Brytestar » Sun May 06, 2012 7:08 am

The sad thing is that the original poster simply never replied. Concidering the feedback it generated I wondered if that original poster is or was simply driven away. Perhaps its something we will never know.
Sometimes you just gotta look at the Bryte side!

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Re: "Rachel 9000" Fembot Short Film -Indiegogo

Postby KingJeremy » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:23 am

Brytestar wrote:The sad thing is that the original poster simply never replied. Concidering the feedback it generated I wondered if that original poster is or was simply driven away. Perhaps its something we will never know.


I think it's more likely that the original poster was looking to fund the project and not get into a philosophical discussion about the content. I mean if he was passionate about the subject he probably wouldn't have posted to a forum where fetish precedes the word robots. In my opinion he probably saw this group as an automatic cash cow. While I tend to agree with folks on both sides of the topic at hand, I'm ultimately not about to help fund a project that would potentially paint any of us in a negative light. Allegorically speaking, it's a premise that has been done to death, sometimes well but mostly as Asato mentioned in an earlier post...ham-fisted and preachy.

And as I've said in numerous posts, for me personally, I don't much care about the social impact and ramifications that human/fembot interactions will ultimately have on people. Unless there comes a time in the future where a gynoid can act like a real woman acting like a robot I'm just not interested in the technological aspect of the fetish, I have no issue with those that do though. I just want to see real women acting like or pretending to be robots. It's fantasy for me, nothing more. My wife acted this out for me innumerable times before we separated and I've had several encounters with different women since who have done the same, with varying degrees of success. Every time though it was on my partners terms, I would explain what I enjoyed about this fantasy and they would decide how to approach it. I used to feel the need to explain that it wasn't because I had some subconscious desire to see a woman subjugated or me be in a position of power over them, although for some that may be exactly what they like about this fantasy and there is nothing wrong with that either if their partner agrees to it. For me this fetish is the same as someone loving feet or dressing up in womens clothes...I just like it. There's nothing more to it than that. Nothing beneath the surface, I don't secretly hate women, on the contrary, I love them. I'm a firm believer in making sure my partner gets hers before I get mine or that magical, elusive time when we get ours together. I'm on great terms with my wife even though we've been separated for a few years now. I mow her lawn and take her out to dinner every week with no intention or desire to "get her back". So the whole idea that I am misogynistic or sexist because I like the idea of a woman pretending to be a mechanical object or that I'm a bad person or should feel ashamed of that is funny to me. Do I think some guys treat women badly just for the hell of it?...yeah. Do I think those guys are dicks?...I do. Do i think we should be painted with that brush just because we as a group like women acting as robots or for enjoying the thought of living your life with an actual gynoid at some future point in time?...fuck no!

Back to the movie and it's maker, if he was interested in the topic he would have realized he had a goldmine of information and ideas on this forum and would have made more than one post looking for financial support and word of mouth advertising. As it is, I imagine he's looking to make a "statement" and unfortunately for us, guys hating on their droids and being cast as douchebags is par for the course in these type of scenarios. Speculation and opinion on my part in just about this entire post. Anyway, I'm a dick for replying to a dead thread but needed to speak my mind. Carry on.

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